Your thoughts on evolution
Researchers found hand bones of an adult female Australopithecus sediba in Malapa, South Africa.
September 12th, 2011
12:56 PM ET

Your thoughts on evolution

We knew our story on a possible human ancestor called Australopithecus sediba would be controversial, but never expected more than 1,900 comments to come in.

The post generated some pretty intense discussions involving readers who do not believe these new findings - or any evidence of human evolution, for that matter - because of their religious beliefs.

blake

Maybe your ancestor, not mine. I was created in the image of God, not evolved from from some lifeless goo over billions of years. The accident of time and chance. I don't have enough faith to believe those kind of fantastical fairy tales.

Religious sentiments such as this received a lot of backlash from readers such as gary, who writes:

Evolution is fact. Deities and demons are pretend. Bible is folklore, myth, superstition and legend.

There's also a large contingent of readers who don't see a contradiction between accepting the facts of science and having religious faith. Judas Priest writes:

Excuse me, but why does believing in god mean denying the wonders of creation that you can see and touch and evaluate? How does accepting that the world is billions of years old, and the universe billions of years older still, deny god? How does observing that things change over time refute god in any way? Why must god, and god's creation, be small enough to be encompassed by your tiny little mind and your tiny little book?

The hundreds of comments that formed these discussions annoyed readers like Pav, who thinks people with religious reasons for denying evolution should take their beliefs elsewhere.

Mathematicians don't have to justify the Pythagorean theorem every time they apply it to a new proof, and scientists don't need to justify evolution every time they talk about a new fossil. So, stop it!

Of course, not everyone sees it this way - earth2loons feels that evolution is a lot more controversial than the Pythagorean theorem, writing:

"...when you must eliminate the possibility of a creator from your interpretation of the data because of your own agnostic or atheistic biases, you will see what you want and need to see."

It's obvious that a lot of people have very passionate views on this topic but, this being a science blog, we are going to report with the assumption that the prevailing, tested theory with the most rigorous evidence - evolution - is true. And CNN has a Belief Blog that fosters conversations about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives.

And there's a lot of misunderstanding about evolution; it's really not as clear cut as you might think. Reader John Hanson writes:

There is always controversy surrounding the "discovery" of fossils that are supposed to bridge apes to humans because they're always plagued by assumptions made by paleontologists. They touted "Peking Man" as the "link" in the fossil chain proving evolution, then came to discover bones of homo sapiens in the same pit. There are too many assumptions and too little PROOF.

The truth is that there is no simple chain of ancestry with a "missing link" that scientists are trying to find. When we talk about the lineage of Homo sapiens, we acknowledge that there were a whole bunch of ancient relatives of various anatomical forms, some of which are more closely related to us than others. Check out this piece from Science 2.0 on the "missing link fallacy" to learn more about the complexity of tracing the evolution of our species.

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Filed under: Human ancestors • On Earth
soundoff (3,534 Responses)
  1. John Butler

    My God vs your fossil. Silly polarization. Whoever got this rock spinning, was able to set up a few raw ingredients and, with a big-bang snap of the fingers, was able to sit back and watch a seemingly infinite living universe unfold . . . over billions of years . . . in perfect order. Now that's the kind of patience I'd want at my final judgment. In the face of this universe, I am humble enough to admit I don't really know but I'm free to believe.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:32 pm |
    • Danny

      The biggest objection to God "sitting back and letting it happen" is that the Bible continuously emphasizes how God was involved in human life. But I agree with your description of how Creation must have been – amazing.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:41 pm |
      • pirate

        God WAS involved – but suddenly, 2000 years ago, he stopped meddling in human affairs. Now that we are much better suited to analyze any supposed "miracles" like 5 fish feeding thousands, or a zombie guy walking after being dead three days (man he musta SMELLED!), well, now suddenly those kind of miracles don't happen! Your god is a cruel jokester! The answer? Its all fairy stories!

        September 13, 2011 at 2:29 pm |
  2. John

    How about studying the future and stop wondering about the past. Thats why there is time. Time moves forward not backwards.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:32 pm |
    • Cass314

      Our understanding of evolution is actually really helpful in doing other biological research. When you want to understand a gene, often you make mutations in regions you think will be important, and see what happens. You decide what regions you think will be important either from a biochemical analysis and structure, if there is one (but if its a new area of study, there probably isn't) or by aligning the sequences of lots of species who have this gene in which it works similarly and looking for conservation. If other species have a similar gene but it does something very different, and you are looking for what caused that difference of function, evolution as a principle is similarly helpful.

      Also, geneticists depend on basic selection every time they do a screen. By further studying the past, we learn not only facts, which frankly I think is more than enough of a reason to do it, but we also learn principles we can exploit to further our knowledge of other things, like disease genes.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:41 pm |
    • Timetraveler

      How about not studying history either? Who cares what happened in the past, right?

      September 12, 2011 at 6:08 pm |
    • Timetraveler

      "Study the future". Just reflecting on the utter stupidity of that short phrase makes me naucious.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:13 pm |
      • John

        Hey TIMETRAVELER why don't you go back in time and play with your ancestors (APES). You all have something in common to talk about.

        September 12, 2011 at 8:17 pm |
    • pirate

      LOL Timetraveler, good call!

      September 13, 2011 at 2:31 pm |
  3. Danny

    Right now I'm speaking to those who think both evolution and religion can be true.
    The book of Genesis details how God created Adam “from the dust” and God “breathed life into him”. Adam then names all the types of animals, which existed at the point that God created Adam.
    Therefore, I don’t think one can believe that both religion and evolution are both plausible explanations for creation (with respect to humans). The Bible's story of Creation and Evolution from a common ancestor are mutually exclusive.

    As for those who think religion is a fantasy and evolution is the only way, I can only say that I believe in God – if you don’t, that’s your belief and you’re entitled to it. I can't stand when people start insulting each other on these blogs. We're all intelligent human beings trying our best to understand something. Let's at least show some respect for other beliefs.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:32 pm |
    • Bibletruth

      Creation and the idea of human evolution cannot be harmonized, absolutely impossible. Why do you think all those highly educated scientists scoff at such an idea. In that they are correct.

      Not exactly related, but for my Christian friends, please put this to memory: God does nothing in partnership with Satan.

      To my non-Christian friends, please put this to memory: The only permanently interesting thing is God.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:15 pm |
      • Timetraveler

        Oh I don't know. I'd say the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny are far more interesting than god. They actually do tangible things.

        September 12, 2011 at 10:47 pm |
  4. Mark J

    A lot of you post that the Bible is just some book. The Bible is the true word of God. Name a book that is as great as the Bible. The Bible was written by fisherman and kings, prophets and priests, tax collectors and a doctor. Although the Bible was written over a big period of time and it was written by many authors, it still posesses a central thought. Did you notice the correlation between Genesis and Revelation. Read it. Genesis (the first two chapters) starts with man being placed in the Garden of Eden. Revelation (the last two chapters) ends with the New Jerusalem. Genesis starts with Adam and Eve; Revelation ends with Christ and the church. Genesis starts with a tree and river. Revelation ends with a tree and a river. What does this mean? God wants to obtain His corporate expressionl. Eve is a type of the church as the counterpart of Christ. However the church is a corporate people. Through man taking God as their life supply, God obtains HIs corporate expression- the New Jerusalem.

    Second, the prophesies in the Bible are 100% true. Isaiah the prophet lived centuries prior to Cyrus, the king of Persia. Yet, Isaiah 45 even mentions us the name Cyrus, as the one to free the children of Israel from their captivity. The Bible mentions a Greek king who would rule the earth, but his kingdom is to be devided by three. This prophecy, written centuries before Alexander the Great, was fulfilled. Alexander's kingdom was devided by his three main generals. Zechariah 12:1 states that God streched forth the heavens. Does not science prove that space is streching?

    Moreover, the Bible mentions the rebirth of Israel. Israel was not a country for two thousand years. However God restored Israel seventy years ago.

    Evolution does not reject the Bible. Maybe some creatures did evolve over time. The Bible must not always be taken literaly. However God said that man is in His image. Yes, these ape-humans did exist, but they were not humans. One thing that separates human beings from animals is spirituality. Only man worships a god. This is because man has a spirit.

    I beg you to stop ignoring God! He will come! One day it would be too late to believe. Have you noticed the recent earthquakes and storms? This is God's warning to us. God only wants you to enjoy Him. Call "Lord Jesus" with your whole heart. What joy it brings us! Why do listen to Darwin, or Hawking, or Dawking? Listen to God. Darwin has no authority to teach me something about the universe. Only God has the authority. Believe in Him, just call upon Him! God wants to be with you!!! HEAR THE WORD OF THE LORD AND TURN TO GOD!

    September 12, 2011 at 5:32 pm |
    • KrashUndBurn

      """The Bible is the true word of God. Name a book that is as great as the Bible"""

      What about the Holy Qur'an? Since the Qur'an was delivered from Allah to mankind AFTER the bible, then you must agree that the Qur'an is the document He intends for humans to follow.

      He first gave humans the old testament, then the new testament, then the Qur'an. We're on God Version 3.0 now. You need to upgrade.

      I've heard rumors that God 4.0 has been released in a beta form, called the Book of Mormon. But it has a lot of bugs.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:39 pm |
    • EnergyBeing3

      Mark, I dare you to read through a few Atheist web sites, (one of my faves is TheThinkingAtheist ) and then get back to us with how much you still believe in the truths of the Bible stories. Plus, the Bible has been revised and translated over 20 times and doesn't reflect the original Hebrew version.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:44 pm |
    • Cass314

      This is wholly opinion, seeing as millions of other people have their own holy books which disagree (or no holy book at all).

      Furthermore, and I'm actually curious about this because I've never really heard it fully explained, if the Bible is 100% the true word of God, how can you *not* take all of it literally? Or, if you accept that sometimes it's allegory, how do you know which sections you're allowed to not take literally and which ones must be taken literally? Couldn't someone turn around and say that the parts you think are unquestionable are in fact just a metaphor? Do you believe that everyone should decide for themselves which parts are literal?

      September 12, 2011 at 5:48 pm |
    • Bibletruth

      About Israel: God has not restored Israel. Israel is not restored because there is no temple, no sacrificial service on the temple mount. And there never will be. Remember what Jesus said: " Your house is left unto you desolate." Remember Babylon and Tyre, both magnificent ancient cities...today desolate yet, as per God's word.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:20 pm |
  5. September

    Creation first, evolution thereafter. The mix of all things created, bring about their evolution. The thought that we evolved from monkeys/apes Then why do we still have monkeys/apes. They survive in a particular environment created special for them. You can not get away from CREATION as the beginning. Man's science came afterwards. Try and remember we would have nothing of scientific value if all things needed to find scientific values were not CREATED for us to explore. So, monkey faces, maybe you and I are a good example of where SCIENCE goes wrong? Is that it? Yep, Wrong, because man's ultimate goal obviously is to be greater than GOD. They desperately want to figure God out and can't, therefore turn to science as their excuse. Tell me where the beginning is? You can't! Even if there was a great explosion, how was there anything to explode in the first place. You are never going to prove there is no God of Creation.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:32 pm |
  6. atheismisthetruth

    Even as a story evolution is better than creationism.

    With the creation story, two spoiled brats (Adam and Eve) had everything handed to them, yet they could not obey the one rule given to them by their heavenly father. Albeit that rule was to refrain from seeking knowledge. That is a weird rule for a father to give his children.

    In the evolution story, humans fought their way out of incivility by adapting and becoming better and stronger. They developed tools to make their lives more abundant, then language allowed them to communicate in more meaningful ways and pass on knowledge that they gained. With knowledge came abstract thought leading to art and love.

    What a beautiful story, and simple explanation to a complex situation. Oh and it happens to be verifiable by evidence and in no way benefits from manipulating people's emotions like the creation story.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:30 pm |
    • Humanoid

      You must be very naive or you never read the Book of Genesis. Adam and Eve were told not to participate in experiencing the tree of Knowledge. When they succumbed to Satan's temptation – they became ashamed and covered their bodies.
      Now why do you suppose they did that if they just wanted to KNOW facts and figures????? Their 'knowledge' was the
      Carnal type.

      September 13, 2011 at 12:14 am |
  7. pazke

    You can find all the answers you need by watching Mr. Deity. He explains how they chose to use the "organic model" to create man. 😛

    September 12, 2011 at 5:30 pm |
  8. Jessaca

    I never did buy into the whole "God" thing even when my grandmother try to get me to go to catechism. I never did understand religion, and as I got older and study history more and more and took a bio class in 9th and 10th grade evolution was clear to me there could be no other way about it.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:29 pm |
  9. Joe

    I believe that evolution is fact: evolution, that is, as incremental changes in a species. The "Theory of Evolution" attempts to explain much more than the biological process of evolution. The Theory of Evolution is a broad attempt to not only explain the biology, but the theory is also an ontological attempt at explaining life on earth. It is the existential part of the theory that I think can never be proved as fact. This part of the theory has become religion with it's own "faithful" adherents. Every religion uses metaphysical philosophy to explain the unexplainable about life and the "Theory of Evolution" is no different in this regard. The "Theory of Evolution" does have empirical data to support it, but so does every major religion.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:29 pm |
  10. myslant

    Listen up everyone. Darwin's theory of evolution (which offers the most logical explanation for the varied forms life on this planet)still does not settle the all important questions: why evolution, why living creatures (and plants) at all, why consciousness, why the laws of nature (physics, chemistry, etc,)and why the cosmos of which everything (including ourselves)are a part? Other mysteries: were you conscious 200 years ago? Here you are 200 years later, a conscious living creature reading my blog. If you were not conscious 200 years ago, does this mean that something (you)can come from nothing? And, if so, might you become conscious (through another life form)again after your present body expires? Only a fool would suspect that there is no intelligent underpinning to what we call existence.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:28 pm |
    • Cass314

      Biology does not explain physics, stop the presses!

      Look, it's all well and good that you have questions. Questions are good. Lots of things are unexplained. But none of your questions have anything to do with evolution. The fact that we do not yet know where the first life came from casts about as much doubt on evolution as the fact that we don't know for sure where and how the first matter came from does on gravity. As in, not that much, really. Abiogenesis and consciousness are separate fields of study from evolution.

      Also, for thousands of years humans have looked at unexplained phenomena and said there must be an underpinning intelligence. Sickness and volcanoes are God's wrath, the sun and moon are a god and goddess or the sun is pulled by a god, a titan holds up the earth, fairies painted the flowers, etc. But now we understand these things, and there is a simple natural explanation for all of them, and the people who found these explanations were certainly not the same ones who shut off their brains and said the fairies did it. Why should we therefore affirmatively posit a supernatural intelligence underlying evolution or thermodynamics, instead of just following the evidence and seeing where it takes us?

      September 12, 2011 at 5:54 pm |
  11. the depths

    Why must our country be so closed minded? Far too many knowingly and willingly choose to remain ignorant to the undeniable truth. As the brilliant chemist Henry Eyring (who i believe was of the LDS faith) once said, "Is there any conflict between science and religion? There is no conflict in the mind of God, but often there is conflict in the minds of men." There are many layers of truth, thus numerous ways to try and better understand our origins. Theologians and scientists alike should work to reinforce one another, not discredit.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:27 pm |
    • EnergyBeing3

      True. I find that 'Metaphysics' is the hands of Science and Spirituality shaking one another in a more harmonious existence. Religions come and go but we as humans have a spiritual element and all the religions of the world stress this factor. I find that to be extremely interesting.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:31 pm |
  12. Mike

    "Mike, I made a poor assumption, and I apologize. Sorry. I thought you were on the constant "lets distance ourselves as much as possible from our evolutionary ancestor" camp, which, evidently, you are not.
    (But at least I'm willing to admit it! ... Usually)"

    No problem, Andrew. For the record, I don't have a problem calling myself an ape taxonomically. We share morphology and genetics with apes, so there is nowhere else to put us. However, I reject the idea that taxonomy shows anything but similarity in the case of apes and humans. I do not believe apes and humans share a common ancestor. I believe apes and humans share a common creator, who used a similar blueprint, if you will, to create us both.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:27 pm |
  13. Seeker76

    Evolution is theory, not fact. And it is a theory that will never be proven...just like atomic theory. You have to have direct proof that allows for irrefutable conclusion. The very nature of evolutionary theory prevents that. This old argument about evolution is the same problem of people VASTLY over-simplifying a very complex issue they think they understand. Are we really arguing about evolutionary theory, or about people's need to believe in their conventional truths? For those who say evolution is fact, you are acting on faith.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:27 pm |
    • Snorkle

      gravity is a theory--try testing it by jumping off a bridge-would that make you a believer?

      September 12, 2011 at 5:31 pm |
  14. Don

    i dont like hearing people say evolution is scientific fact. it is theory! nothing has ever been proven a fact about evolution. all evolutionary theories are based on predetermined ASSUMPTIONS that we evolved. science agrees that when any probability chance exceeds 1×10 to the 50th power is considered impossible. the mathematical probability of one mutation occuring that is benefical to life is estimated to be 1×10 to the 450th power, (that is 1 with 450 zeros behind it) however the scientific community accepts this probability without question that it is fact. science is only viable when ALL possible solutions are considered and tested. every time some "new discovery" comes along the theory has to be changed to meet this evidence. that is not science. the second law of thermodynamics should be enough to make any intelligent person question the THEORY of evolution.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:27 pm |
    • Cass314

      Um...that's not true. Theory doesn't mean guess in biology–germ theory is a theory. Is it unproven that influenza causes the flu? Furthermore, scientists don't agree on that fact about probability, that's not the probability, said probability would vary wildly depending on the organism, you have to take probability in the context of opportunities anyway, the fact that things are reconsidered every time new evidence appears is a feature of science, not a bug, and evolution has very little to do with the second law of thermodynamics because neither the earth nor an organism is a closed system.

      Evolution is supported by overwhelming evidence, and is the best explanation we have for the phenomena we observe in biology. Evolution as a theory arose out of the evidence and is therefore not an assumption, and to call it that is incorrect. Of course small things change as we get more information. That's a good thing, because it means we keep discovering, and it means that if we're wrong about something, the system will correct it. This is how science–any science, from gravity to germs to evolution to electromagnetism–works.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:01 pm |
  15. joe

    The whole confusion boils down to the radiometric age dating they use to measure the age of earth. When god created the earth in an instant the age of the earth did not start at zero from the perspective of measuring isotopes and all that stuff. This is why it appears that the earth is millions of years old when it is no where near that old. No one seems to realize this.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:26 pm |
    • Cass314

      Prove it.

      Because scientists in many different fields have independently verified that radiometric dating works with many, many different tests and techniques. If you dispute this, fine. Prove it wrong. That's how science works. Not by spouting unverified claims about what God did and didn't do.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:03 pm |
  16. Snorkle

    After Cain killed Abel there were only three humans--but didn't Cain "begat" some offspring. I guess God was busy on the side unbeknownst to the bible folks, or perhaps we're all descended from the crossing of Cain and some human-like primate???

    September 12, 2011 at 5:26 pm |
  17. Timetraveler

    Don't preach in my classroom and I won't think in your church.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:26 pm |
  18. Frank

    You don't have to believe in hell to end up there. If you believe there is no God, then do you also believe you have no soul? People often say there is no heaven or there is no hell. I don't see too many of you "athiests" with the guts to say you also have no soul.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:26 pm |
    • Timetraveler

      What exactly is a soul? Do you know?

      September 12, 2011 at 5:29 pm |
      • EnergyBeing3

        The Chakra System. Look it up. It's pretty rad.

        September 12, 2011 at 5:48 pm |
      • Faith

        Soul comes from God when you are in the mother's tommy and it is the one governing trillions of cells in your body to work together which is giving life and making you to think. When soul separates because of sinful nature of body, all your cells die and no breathing. The bodily separated soul needs to reach God as soon as possible for new and sinless body. If not, it will face the torture with Devil which is a second death. Jesus said once, What if a man has the whole world but he lose his soul. There is nothing equivalent and soul is priceless.

        September 12, 2011 at 6:28 pm |
    • Cass314

      I don't believe in souls, no. I don't think anything happens after death except decomposition. I can't prove this, as you can't prove a negative, but in the absence of evidence for something, especially an extraordinary claim, the rational position is skepticism.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:06 pm |
      • Frank

        I find it interesting that you won't admit that you believe that YOU don't have a soul. If we're faced with two possibilities, either we have a soul or we don't, its certainly not a wise choice to "bet" on the chance that you don't have one. If we have no soul then dead is the same for both of us, nothing was gained by that bet. If it turns out we do have souls then the consequences are eternal.

        September 12, 2011 at 9:20 pm |
      • Cass314

        What do you mean? I said I don't believe in souls. Ergo, I don't believe I have a soul. It's not an admission, it's just what I think it's reasonable to think in the absence of evidence. And talking about the "safe" assumption to make in terms of what to believe doesn't make a lot of sense in the long run, because a lot of religions are contradictory and simultaneously say you're only not going to hell if you believe in them. First, I think it's kind of silly to believe in a mountain of stuff with no evidence for it just in case one is right, and second, there's no way to distinguish and pick which, so why bother with any if I don't believe them. I act ethically because I think I have a duty to treat other people well, but I don't bother worrying about a soul I don't think I have.

        September 12, 2011 at 10:18 pm |
  19. conandoyle

    I have always believed in the Theory of Evolution as a scientific theory.

    I believe it to be the process by which God brought about the world as we observe it – including the evolution of man.

    Maybe God just took his time, which, being immortal, has little meaning to him, and got it right.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:25 pm |
    • Don

      God cannot use evolution to create... evolution is millions of years of death and destruction, survival of the fittest. death did not enter into creation until Adam sinned. prior to that God's creation was considered perfect. there is no death and destruction in a perfect creation.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:36 pm |
      • lancemick

        "God cannot..." That's a pretty funny accusation.

        And, yet, after billions of years of evolution there stands only 1 "animal" to rule them all? Only 1 "animal" with a conscious; 1 "animal" that can even question its existence; 1 "animal" that questions its actions as right or wrong; and, only 1 "animal" with the brain capacity of human beings.

        I suppose we ate the competing races? Killed them in the survival of the fittest while competing for scarce food?

        For the record, I am believer of the main tenets of Evolution. I am not out to disprove Evolution. I am merely making the point that there is no animal like Human beings – not even close. Yet there are so many below us. None of which have a conscious or any ability to even attempt to describe the meaning of Love.

        September 12, 2011 at 5:45 pm |
  20. Just-a-Guy

    On any clear night, I can go out into my backyard and see the Andromeda Galaxy and know without a doubt that the light from that distant celestial body took over 2.5 million years to reach my eyes. To deny that would be folly. How can the world have been created just a few thousand years ago when I can see, with my own two eyes, an object that is over 2.5 million years old? We all have a choice: accept the evidence of our own eyes or wallow in religious ignorance. I feel sorry for those who chose to remain ignorant.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:24 pm |
    • EnergyBeing3

      That is a very beautiful post. Very truthful.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:28 pm |
    • lancemick

      Disproving some biblical text does not disprove Creation and the existence of God. I am not sure if that is what you're saying or not. The point is, for some of us, the fact that it took that light 2.5 million years to get here is validation of God's glory. And, its not proof God does not exist.

      S

      September 12, 2011 at 5:36 pm |
      • Answer

        Well when you have to go to the can it's also God's glory. So is spitting frankly.

        Only the biggest and grandest you want to highlight are a part of your God, not the mundane right?
        Like also the notion of God as always hiding in the cupboard. I can see why you like to not have negative thoughts on a made up imaginary friend. He just doesn't sound cool or mighty when squirming in the mud.

        September 13, 2011 at 2:24 am |
  21. Consultofactus

    Evolution as the driver of adaptation – of course, it's all around us. Evolution as the driver of speciation, probable but not yet proven under controlled observation. Evolution as the driver of inspiration, ridiculous. To believe that the Empire State Building, the entirety of the works of Shakespeare, Freud, Einstein, Matt Groening, the Beatles, Bach, Beethoven, Led Zeppelin machines like the Apollo spacecraft, the '57 Corvette, the intel i7 processor, the internet, and the iphone, etc, etc, etc were somehow encoded in a primordial pool of slime or popped out of nothingness is to be intellectually blind from birth. Our own science tells us that while bonobos share 93%+ of our genetic make-up, yet despite being on the planet far longer than homo sapien, chimps have yet to come up with anything like 93+% of quantum chromodynamics. There's something going on here far beyond basic biology.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:24 pm |
    • lancemick

      Ding, ding, ding.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:47 pm |
  22. J. Crawford

    While many who believe god ALONE created Humans and Evolution is some type of Hogwash, they tend to FORGET that AFTER Adam and Eve left Eden and their sons were born (which ONLY left 3 after Cain killed Abel), OTHER HUMANS HAD TO COME FROM SOMEWHERE!!!! Evolution ANSWERS that in ways that neither I nor almost All of Us Can't Answer, Imgaine, or Choose NOT to find out for ourselves. If people actually READ their Bible's, they would KNOW that there were individuals in Abraham's and Jesus' blood line that lived More than a Hundred years- some lived to be over 300- 900 years Old!!!! I could put quotes from Genesis alone to Link Evolution and "Creationism" Together, but like the Tea Party and religious Crazies, they would be in Denial of ANY of that.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:21 pm |
  23. erich2112x

    Natural selection only scratches the surface. Natural selection does not explain why certain fish grew lungs and crawled out of the ocean onto land, or why certain land animals grew wings and took flight.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:21 pm |
    • Learn more

      The first wings were probably just a mutation that caused a little extra flabby skin between toes and limbs (like Labrador retrievers have been BRED to have on their feet for better swimming) which caught some air when the animal jumped between branches, allowing him to sail a little further than another, or perhaps at first allowing him to swim to shore if he missed a branch and fell in the water. This advantage had survival benefits and was passed on. Some of that animals descendants had more flabby skin and could glide even further, and those were passed on. If you look at wings on Birds and bats, you will see the bones inside are vestigial fingers. Wings are just mutated front legs, which is why no winged animals have separate front legs. They didn't just grow wings. Their legs gradually became functional wings over many generations of mutations and variations.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:33 pm |
  24. EnergyBeing3

    Science doesn't create some form of illusionary Punishment System if you refute it's findings. The Science Community welcomes healthy debate and skepticism. It actually thrives on healthy debate and suspension of disbelief because then that motivates people to explore and find new truths and discoveries. Do you find healthy debate or skepticism in church? No. Religion THRIVES and LIVES on suspension of disbelief and blind faith. It needs brainwashed followers who swear it's allegiance. You never get this kind of dysfunction from the Science Community.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:20 pm |
  25. Joe

    I'm not denying evolution, it's all around us, but I do disagree with people denying a creator. I have a few questions for the scientific community :

    1: How did evolution decide I needed a pancreas?
    2: How did evolution decide pituitary gland?
    2: How did evolution decide the Carrion Flower would emit a smell of rottening meat to attrack its prey?

    And the list continues. Certainly evolution plays a part in such things as bigger, smarter, faster, But so me where evolution is making concise decisions.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:20 pm |
    • EnergyBeing3

      Many enlightened masters of the world have expressed that everything is simply consciousness. I like your post.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:24 pm |
    • Canuck1979

      It's called Natural selection. As life evolved over millions and millions and millions of years, im saying millions so people comprehend how long evolution takes, life took on different forms and adapted to it's surrounding and needs. The pancreas just didn't appear one day, it was developed through millions of years of natural selection in our evolutionary trail and adapted to the changing bodies needs, again, over millions of years. Also, just to clear another thing up with the people who keep saying we come from monkeys, we don't. Apes and humans have a common ancestor dating back as far as 20 million years ago. This is why there are apes, and why there are humans. We took different evolutionary paths from our common ancestor.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:25 pm |
    • Timetraveler

      And therein lies the crux of your mental block: "decide... decide... decide...". There was no "decision" made by anyone or anything. Evolution follows a deceptively simple rule: adaptation through natural selection. You will never understand the power of this simple rule by examining things over the ridiculously short window of time that is your lifespan, give or take a couple of generations.

      Biological features that offer an advantage to its owner carry on to the next generation. Those that are a detriment die off quickly. Others that lose their usefulness, but aren't detrimental, disappear slowly. Study evolution.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:40 pm |
  26. Canuck1979

    Also, how do religious people explain races? Why do we all look different? If god created adam and eve, what colour were they? Where did asians come from? and caucasians? or did he create an adam and eve in every race? Think logically people. I know it's hard to shake the fairy tales that have been implanted in your brains, but until you start thinking logically, you will never truly understand the beauty of the world, and the universe. Life is an unbelievable gift that took 4 billion years. The beauty in that is truly amazing to me. We know this because of research and evidence. If you deny that and science all together, the next time you have a deadly virus, do not touch the anti-biotics that will save your life, cause remember, science is gibberish right? Have a headache? deal with it, don't take an advil that those darn scientists created to relieve your migraine. Also, live in the dark, and walk to work. Everything you have in your life is because of smart people researching, developing, and perfecting.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:20 pm |
    • EnergyBeing3

      True and fully agreed. Also, if you believe in the basis of just "Adam and Eve" then you believe in incest because one of the sons would have had to either have sex with Eve or one of his sisters. Or the father would have sex with the daughter. It's seriously sick and wrong. Then also, if you believe in the Noah story, his family would have had to have incest to repopulate the world. It's just not reality and very wrong.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:26 pm |
    • Humanoid

      @Canuck1979 – We have many wonderful scientists, engineers and medics etc. And they all do great things with the brains given by God for the good of man. Cope!

      September 13, 2011 at 12:17 am |
  27. Zachary

    I firmly believe in God and in his son Jesus Christ. . As a student of biology, I also believe in a very, very old earth. I believe in evolution as a scientific fact, the details of which are still being uncovered. I do not believe that science and religion are contradictory. We do not have a complete understanding of how God created the universe, at the same time, I find science so exciting because there is so much left to be discovered.

    I do not believe that the Bible requires us to refute evolution. God gave us the Bible as a record of his people, and as a textbook on how He, as our creator, expects us to live our lives.

    Likewise, I do not believe that science has nor can disprove the existence of God or of His hand in the world. Scientific evidence can, perhaps, indicate that the creation may not have happen exactly as our predecesors believed, but I have not come across a single shred of evidence that in any way proves he does not exist.

    I believe that the science of how we came to be here, far from disproving God, only adds to the awe I feel towards him and to His majesty.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:20 pm |
    • Jeff

      Agreed, now convince Christian Fundamentalists of that!

      September 12, 2011 at 5:22 pm |
    • lancemick

      Amen Zachary. I share your sentiments exactly.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:30 pm |
    • Kyle

      I agree with your comments in general terms, but disagree humans have the basic capability to understand the universe and its complexity. Having been to teh moon and back, we still lack the knowledge to cmprehend what around us, let alone believe there is God that created the universe a certain way.

      I agree there is more that meets the eye, there are principals we have yet to understand, but believing we know everything through God is short changing ourselves.

      I am open to adming I don't know and am willing to learn and listen, but have a hard time following anything that says everyhing is explained was explained in this book that was narriated some 2000 years ago, wriitten and re-writtn many times.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:23 pm |
      • Humanoid

        Kyle – you stand out on these pages as the ONLY person who has said he is willing to listen and learn. I'm well impressed.
        Two things you could look at. The first is The Divine Mercy website.
        Second, there's a really interesting article on http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics. They give facts and figures on the earth's relationship with the cosmos and the strong possibility of a Supreme creator.
        Seriously, it's worth a glance. Cheers.

        September 13, 2011 at 12:26 am |
  28. Snorkle

    It must be a horribly frightful experience to go through an entire lifetime bombarded by absolute facts that one's religious beliefs say aren't true. It's no wonder science deny-ers get so strident spouting their mumbo-jumbo (but interestingly enough at the same time spewing invective at magical fiction/fantasy like "Harry Potter"); the only way they can truly believe themselves is to have others share those beliefs-good luck with that. Evolution is nothing more than the change of allele frequencies in a population from one generation to the next. This is exactly what plant and animal breeders do every day, and it is verifiable. How can any sentient being deny that the cornishXrock chicken that they purchased from KFC was specially created by a deity and still be taken seriously.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:19 pm |
    • EnergyBeing3

      People are addicted to their delusions. If you break down the psychological factors that religion feeds the mind, you'll soon see how it's a brilliant scam and con that has controlled people for thousands of years. It still does to this day. People still fall for the parental "Reward or Punishment" systems through the indoctrinated and community repetition factors built in through the rituals. It's really a great set up for controlling people.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:36 pm |
    • Kyle

      There are also penecillin resistant bugs; that is a perfect example of evolution in a life time. God is not mad at the nonbelievers, otherwise those who don't believe God, will fall ill.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:46 pm |
  29. RJR

    God is and will always be the ruler of this world. Thus, he create all in it. Either believe it or not. If you don't, one day you will know the truth (when your die or when he returns). What awaits those that don't believe is sad. Read Revelation 20: 11-15. Pay attention to verse 15. If God chooses, he will open your eyes and heart to the truth.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:19 pm |
    • SarcasmIncarnate

      oh man, now i'm really scared. if i don't believe in a bronze-age judeo-christian "God" i'll spend eternity in a lake of fire. what better reason is there to subscribe to religious beliefs?

      September 12, 2011 at 5:23 pm |
      • Humanoid

        You really have no clue, have you ? Or you wouldn't BEGIN to joke about hell for eternity.
        God loves you no matter what and, whether you believe it or not, He will keep giving you chances to accept his invitation right up to the moment of your death.

        September 13, 2011 at 12:35 am |
  30. jagr rio

    man created god. god didn't create man!

    September 12, 2011 at 5:19 pm |
  31. Thinker

    If there is intelligent design, then explain why men have nipples. If there is a "creator" then he is one creepy dude.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:19 pm |
  32. BeamMeUpScotty

    You don't need to be a biological scientist to understand why Evolution is FACT.

    1. Does inter-breeding and selective breeding work? Aren't these breeding practices done specifically because it produces a more desirable offspring, like a faster and stronger dog or horse?

    2. Are biological processes perfect? Do *birth-defects* occur? Can you not exactly what your baby will turn out like during conception?

    Think through these questions, and it should not be difficult to understand why EVOLUTION is FACT.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:18 pm |
    • BeamMeUpScotty

      Just a slight correction. #2 should read:

      2. Are biological processes perfect? Do *birth-defects* occur? Can you know exactly what your baby will turn out like during conception?

      September 12, 2011 at 5:19 pm |
  33. Thomas Paine

    "The study of theology, as it stands in the Christian churches, is the study of nothing; it is founded on nothing; it rests on no principles; it proceeds by no authority; it has no data; it can demonstrate nothing; and it admits of no conclusion."

    September 12, 2011 at 5:17 pm |
  34. Bilbo2001

    Incredibly wrong. Intelligent design IS creationism, wrapped up in a different package. Creationism states a being created everything. If you say intelligent design means that all of nature was "designed", "like an engineer", regardless of whether or not some 3000 year old philosopher said it (try to recall that our knowledge of science was extremely limited at that time), the "design" part infers that someone or something did the designing...call it a god...or mother nature...it implies willful design...science has shown life was created from primordial soup with the application of heat and electricity and BILLIONS of years of molecular interaction...until something finally clicked and formed a primitive single celled organism. Then, evolution and survivial of the fittest (two separate concepts) kicked in.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:17 pm |
  35. Mike

    Evolution: organisms should retain remnants of characters of the organisms they evolved from.

    Creationism: Organisms should have only the structures and genes they need, as they were created in present form.

    Whales have genes for making legs, but they clearly don't have legs. Humans have the genes to make fully functional tails. If everything was created in "their present form" why do all of these creatures have gene remnants? Ohhh that's right.. because creationism is based on nothing, that's why and evolution is based on science fact.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:17 pm |
  36. Johnn

    The point here is not evolution vs. intelligent design, it's is man unique and made in " the image of god" or earthly?. Well from my perspective, let's hope "god" if there is one, does not resemble us in any way, shape or form. We are loud, demanding, belligerent, violent people and if there is an "intelligent design" to this universe, it could not have come from anything resembling us. It is much more conceivable that we evolved from combative, power-driven chimps than anything divine...

    September 12, 2011 at 5:16 pm |
  37. Charlton Heston

    A planet where apes evolved from man?

    September 12, 2011 at 5:15 pm |
    • Jack

      It's a question of simian survival.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:24 pm |
  38. Faith

    Love, Trust, and Faith are beautiful human experssions and you can never or ever get it from animals or birds unless it is trained by us to love. Evolution and science can not explain the real love because it comes from God. Evolution can not measure God's glory and power because it is jut found by us. Here is some reality check. It is just a shadow that Devil wants to hide God's love behind it. Who can born in a poor family and become God. Who can raise the dead. Who can heal the sick and born blind. Who can control the weather. Who can go to a place knowingly to die. Who can change the shame of cross into holy. Who can resurrect from the dead. who can bring the sign of star on the sky. who divided the history of time into BC (Before Christ)/AC (After Christ). Some people say Jesus lived and died. But he was not resurrected. I have a question for them. Will you be ready to be tortured and die for some lies. Thousands of Jesus's deciples died to spread the good news. In India, one of the Jesus's deciple was skinned out and killed. They know the truth and it is true that "Jesus Lives". He will come in the clouds with glory and power. Please be ready for his mercy friends. Evolution can not prove anything as it has just dead bones and theory. If you trust God, he will give living body. God bless you.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:14 pm |
    • Answer

      More garbage at spreading false love. Shame you people need to constantly need a figure to say that it loves you. Pity.

      September 13, 2011 at 2:27 am |
  39. Terry

    Religion is the most evil perverted form of sickness on the planet today. What other group indoctrinates a child by telling him that he must believe every word the church tells him or he will burn and suffer enormous pain eternally if he does not? The brainwashing starts early and is complete by adulthood. This is a sick practice people. If I attempted to do something similar in my home to my own child he would be taken away by child services for being mentally tortured. Religion is sick, evil and best left in the Bronze Age. I don't expect true believers (the brainwashed) to understand what I am saying. But the next time you look at your little child and walk them into that church remember the anguish that you are bestowing upon them, all in the name of a money machine called religion. The only way the machine can continue is to ensure that young open minds can be molested in horrible ways.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:14 pm |
    • Terry

      Look at the post above mine, by Faith. These people are sick ... talking of torture and skinning. Sick! Sick! Sick!

      September 12, 2011 at 5:24 pm |
      • Faith

        Please tell me what i said wrong about Faith and Love. If not, why you call us "Sick". We are ready to die for Christ and only Jesus can heal the unfaithful. Know Jesus, Know love. No Jesus, No love.

        September 12, 2011 at 6:08 pm |
      • Answer

        It is false love. You are not guaranteeing yourself anything even when you want to be convincing.

        It is just a fact that you are begging others to see that you are loved. You do a great job convincing yourself.

        September 13, 2011 at 2:29 am |
  40. Arvell78

    Are we now arrogant enough to believe that we stand to reason with the One we call God? Why should He answer to us about anything? Why should we know? What is genetics except what mankind has told us it is? Does that mean its results are absolute? Could we still be missing something? Surely we dont believe we can answer these mysteries. What arrogance.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:14 pm |
    • JW

      "What does God need with a spaceship?"

      September 12, 2011 at 5:16 pm |
    • huh?

      What do you know about God except what you have heard from other men? Everything you have heard about God comes from men, including those who wrote the bible. It's not a question of believing God or Men. It's men vs. men. You chose to believe the tales of long dead men who had agendas but no evidence, yet you label those who believe instead in modern men with evidence as arrogant?

      September 12, 2011 at 5:26 pm |
  41. RationalThinker

    Evolution. It's real and it's a fact. To deny it in the face of the immense weight of evidence is tantamount to denying the earth is round.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:14 pm |
    • SaxMan

      It's a theory...

      September 12, 2011 at 5:15 pm |
      • RationalThinker

        That the sun rises in the east is also a theory. But if you want to get all technical......

        September 12, 2011 at 5:30 pm |
    • duh

      Evolution is fact and theory. There is nothing higher than Theory in science. When a hypothesis, which explains relationships of known facts, becomes supported by enough evidence to be proven generally true, it can graduate to become a Theory. The best proven theories will never be anything more. They are FACT and Theory.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:36 pm |
      • duh

        Nothing higher at that level of complexity, just to clarify. Take all the facts of the world, learn (with superhuman intelligence) the true way in how they all relate to each other , and you have a factual Theory of Everything

        September 12, 2011 at 5:39 pm |
  42. Piper

    Evolution is wrong because it contradicts itself. Scientists say we cant see evolution happening because it takes billions of years. How do they know that evolution is a fact if they weren't there to observe? If you know the definition of science you know that evolution has to be testable and it's not. It's based on presumptions. It's based on faith and so is creation. Why cant we put God in the picture and say that creation is a possibility. Francesco Redi proved that something cannot come from nothing. This is what evolution says essentially. So this is a contradiction the only explanation I can think of is that there is a Creator.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:13 pm |
    • Capercorn

      Please refer your brain to a book entitled, "Finding Darwin's God" by Prof. Kenneth R Miller. Prof. Miller is a devout Roman Catholic, and he absolutely refutes the creationist ideas from both scientific and theological perspectives, all while arguing that Theism (and specifically, Christianity) is perfectly compatible with modern science.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:15 pm |
  43. Canuck1979

    I find it mind boggling when a religious troll calls evolution a fairy tale, then says he was created in the image of god. Wow! Talk about delusional. We have something called EVIDENCE for evolution, you have ZERO evidence for a god. Let me guess, the devil planted all the evidence deep in the ground so one day people would find it and deny god? Give me a break! There is no chance for the human race if we can't let go of mythological fairy tales. Grow a brain!

    September 12, 2011 at 5:13 pm |
  44. BeamMeUpScotty

    Gorillas and monkeys cannot walk upright naturally like human beings. They do not have the capability to do.

    But Ambam the gorilla can walk like a human being. So can his siblings and father. Why?

    Because they are genetically different from other gorillas. Somewhere a long Ambam's family line, they acquired the genes for walking upright. And walking upright has its advantages as it allows Ambam to carry more with hands!

    This is clearly EVOLUTION.

    A gorilla becoming more human-like!

    September 12, 2011 at 5:12 pm |
  45. Kamal David

    I think religion is part of an evolved human being. Having an evolved brain is one of the effects of us, human beings wanting to look to the skies for the unknown, i.e., exploration, religion, etc. Religion is a belief. It is very personal to each one of us. Being religious is not a bad thing. However, some of us find it difficult to separate religion and science. And that’s why there aren’t too many religious fundamentalist in the “real” academics. Such individuals, either fall-off the wagon or they evolve into accepting that their beliefs were absolute crap and then move on in life. Keep your religion to yourself. If you want to be ignorant that’s fine; that’s your right. Don’t impose this on others. As I said earlier, it is a belief. No one’s threatening you. It’s all good! Love & peace to all!

    September 12, 2011 at 5:12 pm |
  46. Eric

    The problem with people believing in evolution is that, belief in it, would force them to evolve their thoughts, basic beliefs and MORALS... And changing what is deep rooted, is very hard to do. It is much easier to not think and do as your told.

    There is talk about being faithless, but is it not a bigger leap of faith to accept the truth, as to what makes us comfortable?

    September 12, 2011 at 5:11 pm |
  47. imthankfulimachristian

    so I don't pretend to know all the answers about how God made humans. But I have a question for the people who think we have evolved from a one cell creature. Why do humans have more brain than we use (some much more than others)? I have heard that you loose what you don't use in the theory of evolution.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:11 pm |
  48. SaxMan

    I think the key to the issue is not to be 100% invested in believing / disbelieving Creationism OR Evolution. Part of our humanity is to ponder the unknown. I think we often make the mistake to having to create an explanation for the mysteries of the Universe. At one time we didn't understand the origin of rain and would use elaborate rituals to ask a deity for a rain 'blessing'. Now we know that we probably can't call on a being to make it rain. In time, we were able to make observations that led us to know about weather patterns. When it comes to evolution, scientists have made observations that have led to a construction of a theory. I think most scientists would agree, that evolution is by no means a perfect explanation. The information that they've collected would lean in the direction of evolution, but there are too many unknown variables to completely buy into it. My opinion is to have an open mind and see where we are in 100 years.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:11 pm |
  49. The Pope

    OMG, CNN actually reads this drivel?...................................Cancel my subscription

    September 12, 2011 at 5:10 pm |
  50. Serinanth

    "In the beginning the universe was created, this made a lot of people very angy and has been widely regarded as a bad move." HHGTG

    We are all made from the dust of stars, I can look up into the night sky and know that I am a part of this beautiful universe.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:10 pm |
  51. Joseph Garcia

    What if god just created earth and left it there, allowing everything to take place without interfering in anything. Sorta like a kid with a chemistry set, you let it be and see what happens.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:10 pm |
    • Capercorn

      That's called "deism."

      September 12, 2011 at 5:12 pm |
  52. Me26

    The bones were planted by aliens. We evolved from aliens. How else did the pyramids get built. The aliens stopped gravity.
    They left us with a bag of bones from experiments on what we call apes and monkeys. Some of which were left on the earth to confuse us. The world is exactly 8765.43 years old. The fossils were created by Adam One the chief alien. There was a dry flood and the people were killed except the chosen few. Toby helped us also.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:09 pm |
  53. Rudi

    One of the biggest lies and false invention by science ….the talk about it as a fact while it is very easy to prove that it is baloni, all you can read at wwwTheDimensionMachineDotcom and the book Science , Opinion and the Truth ….all by Rudi Merom (google it) . if you wish to read something real truthful than you have to read it…chapter summary at the website.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:09 pm |
  54. breece

    I believe that evolution is fact. I also believe that God is fact. I would have only 1 question for the evolution scientist; Who or What created all of this evolution in the first place?

    September 12, 2011 at 5:09 pm |
  55. FirmExit

    No matter what science provides, it will NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, prove that evolution is true or the age of the earth. ARE YOU READING WHAT I'M SAYING???....IT WILL NEVER DO IT, EVER. IT IS 1000% IMPOSSIBLE. NO MATTER WHAT YOU REPLY, OR WHAT THEORIES STATE, OR WHAT YOU'VE BEEN TAUGHT, SCIENCE WILL NEVER PROVE THESE AS FACTS. IMPOSSIBLE. OPEN YOUR MINDS AND STOP BEING THE TYPICAL AMERICAN NARROW-MINDED IDIOTS.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:09 pm |
    • Capercorn

      The Problem of Induction is not new. It's been around since Aristotle.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:11 pm |
    • Serinanth

      *facepalm* You do realize how badly you just failed right?

      September 12, 2011 at 5:13 pm |
    • SarcasmIncarnate

      it will also never prove that the earth is a sphere, that the earth orbits the sun, and that gravity exists. next stop, ignorance boulevard!!

      September 12, 2011 at 5:14 pm |
  56. PappaZ

    God created evolution... You stupid monkeys...

    September 12, 2011 at 5:08 pm |
    • Answer

      Yes you are the garden of eternal knowledge.. please spew more.

      For the rest please either give evidence or just state that you are spewing garbage – thanks.

      September 13, 2011 at 2:32 am |
    • breece

      Best answer by far. Thanks PappaZ.

      September 13, 2011 at 9:48 am |
  57. Kamish

    My biggest argument against evolution is simple...the care required for human infant....I don't think a primitive man/woman of say 50,000 years ago or even longer, would have had the skills to raise an infant that would survive. That why I think at some point in the not too distant past say 12,000-100,000 years ago, man sprang up, because of outside manipulation, whether that was what we call GOD, or Extra Terrestrial Creatures(say GOD is an ET, being not of this earth by the way), that brought man here, or made changes to existing man-like beings already here. The human new born is very fragile, and doesn't survive like any other newborn on the planet, it needs special care by an intelligent being that can give that care...look at all other animal life on the planet, once it leaves moms body it has a least some small ability to fend for itself...oh & birds are birds, not animals....

    September 12, 2011 at 5:08 pm |
    • Stephen Charchuk

      You still don't understand what evolution is. Just look at the human female's body. in relations to adaptation and breeding cycles compared to other animals and how it attracts males to keep them around. Look it up.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:39 pm |
  58. Hermanocleas

    I care more about who we are becoming than who we were. That said, I think it's important to analyze theories without bias, religious or otherwise. If the word "fact" loses it's meaning, we are all doomed.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:08 pm |
  59. JW

    Wait until we find out it was really the aliens all along . . . .

    September 12, 2011 at 5:08 pm |
  60. Capercorn

    This is one of those wonderful instances where I love to bring up Kenneth Miller, and his amazing work, "Finding Darwin's God", in which he refutes the creationists and "ID-theorists" from both scientific and theological grounds. The absolute best defense of the Modern Evolutionary Synthesis I have ever had the pleasure to read.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:08 pm |
  61. Ezra

    1. Evolution is a fact
    2. NOBODY knows whether there is a god, a thousand gods, or no gods.
    3. All religions are man made and have no idea what any god or gods may want.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:07 pm |
    • Stephen Charchuk

      AMEN, brother.......!

      September 12, 2011 at 5:32 pm |
  62. Eric R.

    Let us not forget...that science is not perfect. Up until the 50's, science said that the universe had no beginning....it was always here....then they discovered that it did have a beginning....just as was written in the Bible over thousands of years ago.

    The evidence inside our cells is pointing to a designer. Nothing could have prepared Darwin for the shock of a cell being so massively complex.

    The problem is this....where did the information in our DNA come from? How on earth was it organized by "nothing"??? Our DNA holds gigabytes of information on how we are to be constructed....and it is very specific too. A cell takes 2D information and converts it to 3D information. How can this complex conversion process even begin to happen with no intelligence behind it?

    To say we were not designed is like saying an iphone has no designer. It's silly to even think that....yet science applies that sort of thinking to ourselves. Science is a wonderful way to discover how God's universe works, but science is not always correct.

    I am a Christian and an Electrical Engineer. As a messenger from Christ. All that Jesus has said is true....study his words carefully and do please accept his gift of total forgiveness.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:06 pm |
    • Steve

      While many might asset the scientific method is sound it is important to separate this from scientific findings. Science is self-correcting based on the best possible evidence – this is why scientific consensus on the origins of the universe shifted. However, saying that the big bang indicates the beginning of the universe is taking liberties beyond which any scientist is entitled; we have sound evidence of the state of the universe regressing back to when the universe was infinitesimally small, but this does not necessitate an absolute beginning. Indeed, bubble-universe theories, which imply multiple concurrent universes, may have merit.

      The cell is indeed massively complex. And within this massive complexity is a great deal of – frankly – silliness. Working with cells at the level of genetics, molecular genetics, molecular biology, physiology, and medicine, I have come to expect molecular pathways, their underlying genetic foundations, to be obtuse and cumbersome. Through sequence alignment I can track where changes have occurred over time, and examine their effect between and within species. Such changes are introduced stochastically, but are retained or discarded in a fashion nobody could describe as random. The mechanisms by which these changes interact with the environment is the communication through which changes are selected.

      The question of the origin of life has many plausible theories – but considering that many of the smartest people on earth are currently working on this problem without consensus, I am compelled to humbly decline opinion on the issue, despite taking many courses on the topic. I would argue that the amount of information in our genome far exceeds gigabytes – about 6 billion base pairs in the diploid genome indeed, but this fails to take into account the 3-dimensional organization of the genome, in addition to epigenetic changes, and information flow between the cell and its genome. The gene-environment interactions under which natural selection operates explains very convincingly how genetic changes lead to transcriptional changes, which lead to translational changes, which lead to changes in cell biology, and physiology of the organism – after all, we have tools for tracking these changes at every single step of the way. In fact, I use many of these tools daily.

      While I won't address the iPhone argument since it's a rehashing of the teleological argument, I still think it's interesting to point out that nobody DID make the iPhone. To reiterate, no single person truly knows how to make an iPhone. In order to make this claim, such a perform would require the skills to mine the aluminum, zinc, sulfur, copper, europium, manganese, cerium, etc, design circuit boards, the camera's BSI CMOS sensor, and whatnot, derive the equations necessarily for understanding signal processing, solid state physics, quantum mechanics, software engineering etc, and integrate these parts into a single product. Hugely complex systems always have multifactorial inputs required their creation, and once you understand these inputs you can start to understand the product as a whole.

      Science is not always correct. In fact, I will be pedantic and say that no scientific theory can perfectly describe the universe. But when describing physical processes, accepted theories produced by the scientific method are by far the best we have. Indeed, Einstein has been disproved on many issues since his death. No doubt he would scoff at contemporary understandings of quantum mechanics. Then he would try to disprove them. Failing that (and after perhaps realizing that quantum mechanics allowed the creation of his shiny new iPhone), he would accept it as the best theory available, for someone is bound to come up with something better.

      I see beauty and wonder in this world. But I also find beauty and wonder in the processes which explanation how it has come to be that we experience beauty and wonder. I have no need for an anthropomorphic supernatural father-figure in my world view, but perhaps you choose to. However, I believe that letting this view dissuade you from honestly examining evidence available at your fingertips is a mistake.

      [P.S. excuse typos – I wrote this quickly]

      - In response to -

      Let us not forget...that science is not perfect. Up until the 50's, science said that the universe had no beginning....it was always here....then they discovered that it did have a beginning....just as was written in the Bible over thousands of years ago.

      The evidence inside our cells is pointing to a designer. Nothing could have prepared Darwin for the shock of a cell being so massively complex.

      The problem is this....where did the information in our DNA come from? How on earth was it organized by "nothing"??? Our DNA holds gigabytes of information on how we are to be constructed....and it is very specific too. A cell takes 2D information and converts it to 3D information. How can this complex conversion process even begin to happen with no intelligence behind it?

      To say we were not designed is like saying an iphone has no designer. It's silly to even think that....yet science applies that sort of thinking to ourselves. Science is a wonderful way to discover how God's universe works, but science is not always correct.

      I am a Christian and an Electrical Engineer. As a messenger from Christ. All that Jesus has said is true....study his words carefully and do please accept his gift of total forgiveness.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:17 pm |
  63. d

    It's quite fascinating how creationists are considered to be uneducated, while only those who believe in the theory of evolution are considered to be educated. Nevertheless, scientific thought today had its foundations in theology. Isaac Newton, for instance, wrote more on religion than he did on science. Gregor Johan Mendel, the father of the study of genetics, was also an Augustinian monk. Galileo was a pious person, and while he views contradicted the Roman Catholic Church, they did NOT contradict the Bible. In fact, if people in ancient history had simply studied the Bible they would have known that the earth was round. Isaiah 40:22 says, "It is He that sitteth upon the CIRCLE of the earth..."
    Voltaire claimed that within 100 years of his death the Bible would disappear from the face of the earth, but that was in 1728, and almost 300 years later it is still the bestselling book in the world. Nikita Khruschev boasted of the end of Christianity in a few years, and he said that the last Christian would be paraded on TV within a few years, but he didn't realize that he was actually speaking about the last communists. The Bible has stood test after test after test. It has stood the test of communism, the enlightenment, higher criticism, and it will stand the test of evolution. It is unconquerable, and one would have to be a "fool" (Psalm 53) not to believe in it. True science is found in the Bible, and I do believe it shouldn't be taught in public schools because we believe in the separation of church and state, but neither should the false religion of evolution. It has been stated that consistent studies have proved evolution to be true, what studies? Have amoebas evolved into more complex entities? Have people found living intermediate species in the world today? Has another big bang occurred that most people didn't know about?
    The studies for creationism are unnecessary because the evidence is plain to see. The complexity of the human eye, the design of the arm and human hand, the intricacy of the human ear, and the comprehension of human language among groups of people is enough to suggest that we did not just evolve. If the teachings of evolution are true than we could put car parts (muffler, radiator, alternator, battery, etc.) in a room long enough, and with the proper conditions, and maybe a big bang, or a bolt of lightning, they would automatically come together and form a car. Better yet, we could put some dust or water on the ground in a controlled environment, and over a given period of time, with a bolt of lightning, and gases that came from who knows where, that dust or water might just get up and walk away.
    It doesn't seem likely that this will ever happen, but what does seem even logical is that a loving God created us in His own image, and if somebody wants to say "if God is love why is there such suffering in the world," then read my earlier post.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:06 pm |
  64. BeamMeUpScotty

    WTF is this thingy "God"?!

    WTF is "Creationism" or "Intelligent Design"?!

    There is no LOGICAL ARGUMENT for what this thingy "GOD" is.
    There is no LOGICAL ARGUMENT for what "Creationism" or "Intelligent Design" is.

    Without a LOGICAL ARGUMENT, you don't even have a LOGICAL THOUGHT about what it is you are claiming to be true.

    That is the fundamental problem with THEISTIC WORLD-VIEWS: they don't make any sense! It's all gibberish!

    For folks who's God is based on Abraham's God – God of Genesis – if you do not understand why EVOLUTION falsifies your dogmas, then you clearly do not understand your religion at all.

    The first fundamental dogma of the OLD TESTAMENT is that of ORIGIN SIN. ORIGINAL SIN claims HUMANS (ie. MAN) brought SIN into this world through an act of defiance against some thingy labelled "God". More specifically, ORIGINAL SIN says we are pathetic creatures who wrote DEATH into existence.

    EVOLUTION clearly shows that DEATH and other acts considered as SIN – like sex and killing for food and survival – are all NATURAL processes of existence. Humans did not bring DEATH and SUFFERING into existence.

    Where as ORIGINAL SIN claims humans are becoming less perfect, EVOLUTION says we are become more perfect.

    Clearly, EVOLUTION contradicts the first fundamental dogma of the "Jewish-God".

    If humans are not responsible for bringing DEATH (ie. SIN) into existence, then clearly there is no need for a MESSIAH to come save us from DEATH, ie. "Jesus".

    Only we can solve our own problems. No sky-daddy is coming to save us. The sooner we get over these childish fairy-tales, the better off we will be in solving all of the problems we face today.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:06 pm |
    • Capercorn

      I think the later Wittgenstein and GEM Anscombe both refuted non-cognitivism.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:13 pm |
  65. Jim

    Evolution will work itself out in the end.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:06 pm |
  66. BBoy705

    "Eskimo: If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?
    Priest: No, not if you did not know.
    Eskimo: Then why did you tell me?"

    September 12, 2011 at 5:06 pm |
    • BeamMeUpScotty

      continuing ...

      Eskimo: so why did you tell me?
      Priest: so you that you can be my slave and puppet!

      September 12, 2011 at 5:22 pm |
      • BBoy705

        Indeed!!

        September 12, 2011 at 5:31 pm |
  67. Steve

    The scientific theory and evidence behind evolution are concepts not grasped in a day. These are problems not friendly to the intuition, and beg for an unbiased and thorough examination.

    In public discussions, the topic invites petty and pithy exchanges. This is not, however, the stage or method best suited to understanding such a matter.

    Assertions cannot stand by the weight of their author's convictions, regardless of which side the author takes.

    Take a good long look back at the evidence you think supports your side of the argument. Spend equal time reading literature which supports, and attempts to refute your side of the argument. This is the unbiased methodology which leads to solid argumentation.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:05 pm |
  68. LFM

    If evolution is true, then why are there still monkeys?
    Boats are heavy, but they float.
    Food goes in, poop comes out.

    Can't explain that.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:05 pm |
    • BeamMeUpScotty

      There are still monkeys because there are still trees to swing on!

      When there are no more trees, there will be no more monkeys!

      LMAO!

      September 12, 2011 at 5:25 pm |
    • Stephen Charchuk

      Because evolution doesn't say we came from monkeys. We shared a common ancestor with them instead around 25 to 50 million years ago......

      September 12, 2011 at 6:33 pm |
  69. Mike

    It completely blows my mind that anyone could just blindly believe and have the ignorance to think that the human race just showed up here magically one day because "God" did it. Of course, this theory isn't based on anything real other than the typical intelligent design fanatic who fills any void with "...it's God's way...". Why is it God's way? It can be proven how old the Earth is, but ID followers deny it to be true. They deny fossils, they deny carbon dating,.... hell why not deny anything is real at all and just live in a fantasy world. Oh wait, you already do.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:04 pm |
    • Mike

      Go watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V_2r2n4b5c

      September 12, 2011 at 5:11 pm |
  70. ObvUsername

    Wheeee! This is a fun comment board.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:04 pm |
  71. RJB

    I see the 2 extremes as shallow.
    In between you even have scientists with faith in a creator. It's not necessarily exclusively one or the other (science or creation). Evolution doesn't claim to be more than a theory and the Holy Bible doesn't claim to depend on the literal since it's main focus is spiritual for humankind. Most people put faith in evolution or creation without study, but because of public opinion where they live.
    As for me, I believe both extremes miss out on the full picture.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:04 pm |
    • BeamMeUpScotty

      The Bible is fairy-tale junk. It cannot be taken seriously at any level. That is the BIG difference between those who use logic and evidence to justify their views.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:28 pm |
  72. examan

    Presently there is a gap between proof by science and what we know exists; therein is the possibility of God.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:04 pm |
    • Stephen Charchuk

      You can't prove a negative.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:31 pm |
    • BeamMeUpScotty

      huh? there's a gap between things we know exist and what science can prove?

      You don't need *science* to prove every thing.

      Before you can prove anything, you must have a LOGICAL THOUGHT about what it is first!

      WTF is this thingy you label "God"?!

      If you cannot logically answer this question, then your "God" does not exist.

      How can it exist when you don't even know what it is you are claiming to exist!

      September 12, 2011 at 6:19 pm |
  73. KatyaKatya

    " I was created in the image of God, not evolved from from some lifeless goo over billions of years. " – You were created in the image of God by means of evolving from lifeless matter over billions of years.
    "Evolution is fact. ...Bible is folklore, myth, superstition and legend." – read something basic and correct on evolution And the Bible and you'll see both are fact.
    What is wrong with you people? The Bible is a spiritual book, not a textbook. Please turn to textbooks for information on genetics and astronomy. Don't expect that from the Bible. For all of the modern science to be in the Bible, the Lord would have to explain the theories of evolution and relativity, say, to Moses. I am personally happy He gave him the 10 Commandments instead, don't you agree?
    I have an uncomfortable feeling that people from both sides who claim science contradicts anything in the Bible either don't like progress and education (makes sense for politicians, since uneducated masses are easier manipulated) or just want to sin freely.
    You deny science – please stop driving cars and taking medication.
    You deny faith – ...I am incredibly sorry for you.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:03 pm |
    • BeamMeUpScotty

      The Bible claims to be a HISTORICAL book – an account of how man became doomed.

      Unfortunately, there is nothing historical about the Bible. No Adam and Eve. No Abraham. No Moses. No "Jesus". And no "Jewish-God".

      The problem is that people use the Bible to CONTROL the WORLD!

      September 12, 2011 at 5:33 pm |
  74. Billy

    People, wake up. God put those fossils there to test your faith. Or was it the devil, or Jonah when he got out of that whale belly. He must have really smelled fishy.

    If you don't believe it you'll get sent to purgatory or hell, or maybe you'll only get 62 virgins instead of the normal 72. Personally I don't watt virgins. I want chicks that have some experience—not slut mind you, but chicks that know how to do stuff—that have been around the block a few times.

    God must have a huge dong.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:03 pm |
  75. No More Retarded Hillbillies In The White House

    This is a great debate. I truly love seeing the simple folk (those who believe a man-in-the-sky created the Earth 6,000 years ago) go head-to-head with sane, rationally-thinking (and even more likely) educated people. It is fun/funny being surrounded by retarded, bible-thumping hillbillies here in the US... they do make life more interesting in many ways – and have given me and my wife many laughs over the years. But there is one very sad, and quite shocking statistic – 40-50% of US adults believe in Young Earth Creationism. Something must be done about that, for sure. We (you know who you are) need to try to reach out and educate these simpletons. And we also desperately need to get out the young voters, come Nov 2012. We simply can not allow the free world to be lead by another dimwitted bumpkin.

    And I want it on the record: should another slack-jawed, retarded hillbilly (like Rick Perry) end up in the White House, we are gone. Canada... Sweden.. I know it is colder than a witch's boobie in these places... maybe the conversations with our new neighbors would be stimulating enough to help keep us warm. The simple folk here would say "good riddance"... but me, and my skills, and everything else I contribute to this country, would be missed here. I have no doubt.

    This is my first post.. ever. I will now put my soapbox away - and not likely bring it out again for quite some time. I had to post something though – this is obviously a topic that I am passionate about. :o)

    September 12, 2011 at 5:02 pm |
    • bristoltwit palin... America's favorite dancing cow

      I do believe that Rick Perry and Sarah Palin lived in the same trailer park.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:13 pm |
  76. Steve

    There's no reason both ideas can not coexist. Evolution is merely a theory. Its an answer for how, but not to why.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:02 pm |
    • NOT MY CHAIR

      religion and evolution can not coexist, especially with the current religions we have. most religions put the Human race at the center of everything, evolution puts us as another cog in the machine

      September 12, 2011 at 5:08 pm |
    • huh?

      Merely a theory as opposed to what? Please don't say 'fact', you'll sound ignorant. Theories explain relationships of facts, and no matter how much they are proven and known to be incontrovertibly true, they are still theories. There is nothing higher than 'Theory' in science at that level of complexity. Evolution is theory and fact.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:14 pm |
    • Stephen Charchuk

      So. You wouldn't mind if they start to teach children alchemy, astrology, and Flat Earthism alongside of Chemistry, Astronomy, and Geology and let them choose what they want? No wonder the American educational system for k to 12 is ranked so poorly.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:29 pm |
    • BeamMeUpScotty

      The WHY is explained by other HYPOTHESIS and THEORIES.

      The current working BIG BANG THEORY based on QUANTUM FLUCTUATIONS does not need a FIRST CAUSE.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:23 pm |
  77. Jeff

    It's funny that Christians are so closed minded on what they believe, yet they have thousands of denominations that disagree, hate, and even kill each other. Please Mr. or Mrs. Christian tell me what belief/doctrines in your religion is the right one? Oh thats right, the on that YOU believe!

    September 12, 2011 at 5:02 pm |
  78. Stephen Charchuk

    I find that most creationists arguments against evolution actually have nothing to do with evolution. Evolution is not about the origin of life at all, nor does it say we came from monkeys, nor does it deny the existence of a god. Even The Church has accepted evolution as a law of nature and as Pope John Paul II said; "We are created in the SPIRITUAL image of god.".

    Creationists should first learn what evolution is and isn't before they try to deny it. Saying that it is "Only a theory" is like denying gravity because it is only a theory as well. Theories are what scientists use to help explain things with known facts. It is not a guess.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:02 pm |
  79. colin in Florida

    Science is based on observation, facts, and evidence. Faith is based on, well, faith, as in I WANT to believe something.

    To the christians out there, answer me this: If Noah existed and the great flood occurred as your source of data (i.e. the bible) says is occurred, then why are there no lions in the America's? Why no kangaroos in Europe? Why no penguins at the North Pole? Since the ark landed on dry land, every species should have populated everyplace if your theory is correct.

    The answer of course is that animals evolved (there's that evil word) by adapting to different environments.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:01 pm |
  80. Jack

    The debate between creationism and evolution often assumes that creationism is the default position. That is, if it were possible to disprove evolution, creationism automatically becomes true. Before I can accept creationsim as a valid explanation, I want to see empirical evidence of creationsim. Merely disproving evolution is not enough. And I don't find persuasive arguments that merely fit the evidence, e.g. an argument that says look around us; the complexity could only have been created. Again, I want evidence, not just argument, and not just citations to a self-serving text. (How many would accept the argument from a lawyer: My client is innocent because he says he is. It's the same argument one claims about a religious text, i.e. it is the truth because it says it is.) I've read the Bible. I'm not convinced or even persuaded. Moreover, there are many creation myths. Why would the account in Genesis be more true than say the account in Hesiod's Theogony? I think Hesiod has the better and more detailed creationsim account; it's more thorough than the Genesis, but I still don't accept it as true without some other empirical evidence. Right now, evolution is still the best organic explanation.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:01 pm |
    • lancemick

      Fair enough position. However, I do not think anyone is saying Evolution is Creation. That is what is so idiotic about a lot of the people's positions in these threads. Evolution is only concerned with the adaptations of EXISTING life forms. Evolution is not a theory to explain the ORIGIN of life.

      People in here are comparing apples to oranges.

      Evolution and Faith in God can and do co-exist.

      I guess what you need to ask yourself is this question:

      1. Did the universe, and all existence that later spawned life as we know it, just POOF into existence from nothing?
      2. Was everything created by a superior intellect?

      I consider myself both science and faith based in my beliefs. Its much easier for me to believe in a Creator than go against even what Science as taught me and believe we got something from nothing. Especially when you consider Something to be EVERYTHING.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:17 pm |
      • Jack

        Thanks for the feedback. I am not saying evolution is creationism. I only want to point out that some in the debate seem to imply that if we disprove evolution, we automatically prove creationism, or a form of it. Creatin theories will have a separate burden of proof. I think the two questions you pose get to the substance of the issues. Here are my answers:
        1. I don't know.
        2. I don't know.
        I accept evolution as the most plausible explanation, realizing that it is always being revised, reconsidered, especially in this Neo-Darwinian age. I am not ready to say it is truth, just as I am not ready to say there is no God. Evolution is an explanation, supported by much empirical evidence, and that's about as good as I can get at this point. Godspeed, lancemick.

        September 12, 2011 at 5:36 pm |
  81. NOT MY CHAIR

    whats funny about the saying god created us in his image is a misrepresentation of the original text to meet human beliefs. read it word for word it says gen 1:26 "Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness" can someone explain why god talks about him self as plural?

    September 12, 2011 at 5:01 pm |
    • lancemick

      Yes, I can explain. Its called the Trinity. God is 3 in 1. Here it is explained from Wikipedia:

      The Christian doctrine of the Trinity defines God as three divine persons (Greek: ὑποστάσεις)[1] — Father, Son, and Holy Spirit — distinctly coexisting in unity as co-equal, co-eternal, and consubstantial (Greek: ὁμοούσιοι), or of one being (Greek: οὐσία).[2] The Trinity itself is considered to be a mystery of Christian faith.[3]

      According to this doctrine, God exists as three persons but is one God, meaning that God the Son and God the Holy Spirit have exactly the same nature or being as God the Father in every way.[4] Whatever attributes and power God the Father has, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit have as well.[4] "Thus, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are also eternal, omnipresent, omnipotent, infinitely wise, infinitely holy, infinitely loving, omniscient."[4]

      The doctrine developed from the biblical language used in New Testament passages such as the baptismal formula in Matthew 28:19 and took substantially its present form by the end of the 4th century as a result of controversies concerning the proper sense in which to apply to God and Christ terms such as "person", "nature", "essence", and "substance".[5][6][7][8]

      September 12, 2011 at 5:11 pm |
      • NOT MY CHAIR

        so god has split personalities?
        Then I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, “Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us?” Then I said, “Here am I. Send me!” Isaiah 6:8 why does the switch from singular to plural?

        September 12, 2011 at 5:20 pm |
  82. neurodude

    it's sad that people still do not accept evolution because they are blinded by the myths of religion. hopefully our minds will evolve enough in the future to not require stories and myths to find meaning in our existence. i honestly feel bad for those who are religious. but the good thing for them is that once they die, they will never know they were wrong 🙂

    September 12, 2011 at 5:01 pm |
    • lancemick

      Oh contrar mofrar. I am a total believer in God. I completely believe God created the Universe. I also believe in Science. They are not mutually exclusive.

      Oh, and by the way, won't you be the one feeling silly when you die and learn that your consciousness / soul survives your earthly existence?

      It won't be me explaining my lack of faith. 🙂

      September 12, 2011 at 5:08 pm |
      • SarcasmIncarnate

        won't you feel silly when you're burning in hell and i'm chilling with my 72 virgins!! 🙂

        September 12, 2011 at 5:19 pm |
  83. joe

    Ok geniuses so if humans and apes came from a common being where did this common being come from?

    September 12, 2011 at 5:00 pm |
    • Joxer the Mighty

      It evolved from another less complex being obviously.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:04 pm |
    • colin in Florida

      A lower form of animal.

      And if you ask where that animal come from, read the above line again, and again, and again. Evolution is a process that took hundreds of millions if not billions of years. Humans simply cannot understand time in those quantities.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:06 pm |
      • joe

        That in no way explains anything. Just saying something took billions of years to occur doesnt mean it happened. Its a completely ridiculous argument to make.

        September 12, 2011 at 5:19 pm |
    • Stephen Charchuk

      You assume that nothing existed beforehand. Its like the game 6 'degrees of separation'. You go back far enough you'll find many common ancestries. We share a common ancestor with apes around 5 to 7 million years ago and that CA with monkeys around 25 to 50 million years ago.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:08 pm |
    • Ezra

      at the very bottom there is a single cell – his name was Dave.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:09 pm |
      • Terry

        Not Dave ... Mark silly.

        September 12, 2011 at 5:32 pm |
  84. Daniel H.

    Cant we stop arguing and just have a beer, smoke a little green, & have sex with beautiful women? Honestly, if your bent up on proving people wrong, you NEED some pussy in your life. Get money, get pussy, & shut the fuck up!

    September 12, 2011 at 5:00 pm |
    • bristoltwit palin... America's favorite dancing cow

      What time are you picking me up tonight ?

      September 12, 2011 at 5:04 pm |
  85. DV

    Poor God. Sad to see the Almighty, creater of everything is deemed by some of His followers as being not intelligent enough to create the self regulating, self correcting, automatically adapting system of evolution. Such followers would prefer that God is chained to His creation bench, slaving away endlessly (even on Sundays!), busily creating each individual bacteria, each individual bug, each plant, each plant and each human. Such followers would seem to be projecting their own endless rote work on God.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:00 pm |
    • NOT MY CHAIR

      the problem with saying that god had the foresight to create evolution to ensure that the universe stays balanced is that it takes humans out of the center of the equation. the Human ego is desperately trying to explain why and how we are special. to be a religious person and believe in evolution you would need to over look the idea that is present in most religions, that as a species we are "superior" to everything else.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:07 pm |
  86. Mjollnir

    All hail Odin. All hail Thor. Here is the TRUE story of creation:

    At the beginning of time, nothing existed. The earth, the gentle oceans lapping up against its shores, man and animal had not yet been created. Only a great yawning abyss was present in the void of nothingness. Out of the abyss, a land of eternal mist, darkness and terrible cold was formed to the North; to all beings, this land was known as Niflheim. In the midst of the Dark Land surged a fountain known as Hvergelmir, from which spread the freezing glacial waters of twelve rivers throughout the void. To the South lay the land of Fire, Muspellsheim; an infernal region of unbearable, unsatiable heat and flames. From there poured rivers of fire whose waters contained a bitter poison which, little by little, gathered and became a solid mass. From the ice flowing from the North, this mass of venom was covered in a thick layer of frost. With the heat blowing from the lands of Fire, the frost began to melt, and the giant Ymir was born from poison and ice.
    Ymir became the father of all giants. On the night of his creation, he fell asleep near the lands of the South and became completely bathed in sweat: from under his left arm were born man and woman, both giants like him. At the same time, the block of ice from which he was born gave forth the great cow Audumla, the wet-nurse of the giants. Ymir refreshed himself from her udders at the beginning of every day, which flowed with life-giving milk. Audumla began to lick the salt from the ice to nourish herself, and the heat of her tongue and breath yielded first the hair, then the head, and finally the entire body of a being whose name was Buri. Buri had a son whose name was Bor, who went on to marry Ymir's daughter, Bestla. With her, he fathered the three gods Odin, Vili and Ve.

    The three sons of the Giants' race at once began to rebel against their creators, which ended in the annihilation of the Giants. They first killed the aged Ymir. So much blood flowed from his shattered body that the abyss was filled with it. All of the other Giants drowned in the blood, save Beregelmir and his wife, who managed to launch a small boat and escape; it is from them that a new race of giants issued.

    After the death of Ymir, the sons of Bor raised his body from the depths of the sea of blood and created earth with it, which became known as Midgard or the 'Middle Abode', for it was situated halfway between Niflheim and Muspellsheim. The flesh of Ymir became the land on which we live, and his blood became the boundless ocean. From his bones, the gods created the mountains; from his hair, they created the trees. They took the skull of Ymir and raised it up on four pillars of bone and made it into the Vault of the Heavens, in which they kept the sparks of fire that escaped from Muspellsheim. These sparks became the sun, moon and the countless stars in the night sky, their course throughout the sky was regulated and kept constant, creating night and day; summer and winter. With the sun in the sky, it threw its golden rays across the barren earth, and the first blades of green grass appeared.

    Soon other gods came to join Odin, Vili and Ve. They seemed to appear out of the abyss, having no father or mother. Together the gods created their dwelling place, which became known as Asgard 'The Dwelling of the Aesir' , in which each of them have a grand mansion. This land was created above Midgard, so that the gods could keep watch over the world that they were creating. To get back and forth between Midgard and Asgard they created the great Rainbow Bridge known as Bifröst, which was guarded by Heimdall, the god of Bifröst.

    As the gods gathered, they deliberated on the manner in which the earth might best be peopled. In the rotting corpse of Ymir, grubs were beginning to form. The gods changed all of the grubs into the dwarves, giving them human form and imbuing them with reason. Because the dwarves were born from the flesh of Ymir, the gods decided that they shall continue to live as they had since their birth, hidden from the light of the sun in the flesh of their creator. Soon the light of the sun became deadly to them, turning them into stone at the slightest exposure. There were no women among the dwarves; hence they were not able to have children. Therefore, the gods gave the dwarves two princes, who had the ability to mould new dwarves out of the stones of the earth. Thus the race of dwarves endlessly continued.

    Men were created from the vegetable world by the gods Odin, Hoenir and Lodur. One day the three gods were travelling across the barren earth and came across two trees with life-less twisted trunks. Odin shaped each of the trees into a man and a woman, and gave each of them breath. Hoenir gave them a soul and the ability to reason. Lodur gave them warmth and the fresh colours of life. The man was called Ask and his wife was Embla, and they proceeded to create the race of man.

    The land of Niflheim (or Niflhel) became the land where the dead would go after their time on earth had elapsed. It was known as a land of eternal sleet and frost. The goddess Hel became the ruler of this domain, and her faithful hound, Garm, guarded the entrance to prevent the dead from ever leaving and the living from entering.

    Out of the chaos of the abyss rose the three Norns, goddesses of Fate. Their names were Urd (Past), Verdandi (Present), and Skuld (Future). Urd appeared in the form of a shrivelled old hag, while Verdandi was a women in her prime. Skuld was a beautiful young maiden. Together the three Norns cared for the Life-Tree, Yggdrasil until the day of Ragnarok when it is destined to die.

    After the creation of the different level, or planes of existence, the great ash tree Yggdrasil began to grow and connect all of the levels. Its first root form in the land of Niflheim, from this root bubbled the spring of Hvergelmir, the source of the primitive rivers. The second root of the great tree extended into the land of the giants, covered with frost and ice. This is where the fountain Mimir flowed. This spring was a source of great wisdom from which Odin desired to drink, however the price demanded for a few draughts was the loss of one of his eyes. The third root extended all the way up into the heavens, and issued the spring Urd. This is where the Norns resided, drawing water from this well at the beginning of each day and sprinkling it on the roots of Yggdrasil so that it would not wither away.

    In the highest branches of the tree sat a golden cock, which kept a constant vigilance of the horizon to warn the gods whenever their ancient enemies, the Giants, were preparing to attack them. Under Yggdrasil, the horn of the god Heimdall was hidden, whose sound would announce the final battle of the Aesir against all whom wished to cause their downfall. Near the trunk of the tree was a place of eternal peace, where the god would meet daily to render justice. In its branches the goat Heidrun browsed; she gave Odin's warriors the milk with which they were nourished.

    There existed demons that would constantly strive to destroy Yggdrasil, the Tree of Life. A cunning monster, the serpent Nidhögg, sat at the base of the third root and gnawed at it ceaselessly. Four stags wandered at the base of the tree and would nibble off all of the young green shoots, preventing further growth of the tree. Thankfully, due to the careful attention given by the Norns, the tree was able to flourish.

    At the time of the creation of the world, it was foretold that it would not be eternal. In the Day of the End, Ragnarok, the earth would be torn asunder in a mighty battle between the gods of the Aesir and the Giants. Great battles of might and magic would be fought, reducing all life to ashes. Yggdrasil would fall, sending the layers of the world crashing down. The hound Garm, guarding the entrance to Niflheim would flee in terror, and the dead will escape, rising again to the earth as plagues and disease to fight along side the gods. In the end of the battle, everything would be destroyed; the gods, giants, men and animals would cease to exist.

    September 12, 2011 at 4:59 pm |
    • bristoltwit palin... America's favorite dancing cow

      Wow. You make my " god farted " theory look ridiculous.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:06 pm |
  87. Paul

    If you look at the "facts" Evolution is faith and belief in God is faith. You will never win a faith vs. faith argument.
    Sorry if someone already said this. If they did, obviously I agree.

    September 12, 2011 at 4:58 pm |
    • Um...

      Not really. Faith is belief in something despite a lack of verifiable evidence. Science is the opposite. The theory of evolution is support by evidence, hence no faith is needed. The reason the argument draws on is because of poor education in science and an ignorance of evidence.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:05 pm |
  88. lancemick

    Here we go again. Extremists from both sides who seemingly cannot understand the concept that Science does not disprove Faith in God nor vice versa.

    I love Science. I love the pursuit of truth. I cannot get enough of the cutting edge theories on how the universe began and how it works. I also Love God. I also believe in a Creator. Science has only helped to validate my beliefs.

    I am sure many of you are old enough to remember that up to the time before the Big Bang theory got traction, the prevailing theory of the Universe was that it was STATIC. It always existed. No beginning and likely no end.

    Current science refutes that theory and instead shows proof that the Universe BEGAN 14.5 billion years ago. BEGAN is the operative word here. If something BEGAN, it is logical to assume it was CREATED. Just one of many examples of Science helping a Faith based person such as myself.

    Near Death Experiences are another great example. Here we have literally millions of people who claim they died, moved on to another existence and came back. In many such cases the person has an OBE where they see and hear things that are later validated by others. Things seen and heard that would not be possible for someone unconscious or dead. The vast majority of these same people claim the experience was as real as any experience in their entire life here on Earth – if not MORE so.

    Yet, those who cling to their materialism faith based science do not believe the eye witness accounts of their fellow human beings. Even if these same humans were atheists; scientists; doctors; or a bums on the street. Meanwhile, both science and the legal system hold observable behavior and eye witness accounts to be measuring sticks on the truth and validity of theory or historical events.

    It seems rather hypocritical to me that the criteria for fact or science can be changed or ignored if these same facts point to something "not possible" in the realm of materialistic science.

    I will continue following all things Science that relate to our existence and the future. And, I will continue Loving God and looking forward to the future He holds for me beyond this earthly existence.

    September 12, 2011 at 4:58 pm |
  89. TJ Ashok

    Every atom with subatomic particles, cells-tissues-organs of every living thing are very precisely designed to function as per very accurately difined rules and operate accordingly – Such minutely planned systems couldnot have happened by Chance which is what evloution is all about- 'Chance – cannot explain why a Peacock and a crow could have evolved from a same ancestor – Nature could not have demanded such stupendous diversity in the same species' because no specific need in nature can be identified to justify peacocks existaqnce. My question is Where Did these Precise Rules of Nature come from ? – Evolution !!!

    September 12, 2011 at 4:58 pm |
    • CharlesD

      Actually, chance can explain all that just fine. What's more difficult to explain is why an omnipotent, allegedly kind creator screwed things up so very, very badly and made so many dreadful mistakes in designing and implementing his creation. Blood vessels on TOP of the retina? Cavities? Cancer? Bubonic plague? If these are the creations of an intelligence, it's an intelligence at the level of a moron.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:27 pm |
  90. Joxer the Mighty

    You people are all crazy! Fellow believers in a creator, why do you bother trying to convince atheists that we have a creator? They have made up their minds that God doesn't exist, so you are not going to change them. All you Atheists out there, I understand your frustration about believers posting in the science blog, but remember that if you have ever posted your atheist beliefs on the belief blog than you have nothing to complain about. Myself, I consider myself a Christian but believe the creation story in the bible is not literal.

    September 12, 2011 at 4:58 pm |
    • JW

      People that oppose your view of creation aren't necessarily atheists. They just don't buy into your interpretation of God, or what God has said. Some think that some people, well-meaning or not, may have just made up things thinking it was what God said, and lots of others were told they had to believe it. Others chose not to believe it, and instead wait on hearing from God directly themselves before they guy into it. And others reject the concept of God at all. So it doesn't have to be so black and white with you people.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:06 pm |
      • JW

        typo, should be "buy into it."

        September 12, 2011 at 5:07 pm |
    • CharlesD

      Most people who believe in evolution, both practicing scientists and lay people, are not atheists and have no trouble at all balancing faith and reason.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:29 pm |
  91. Me

    Dear Blake (from the article), you are correct. You never evolved from goo, and have remained the same for billions of years. Kudos to your resilience.

    September 12, 2011 at 4:58 pm |
  92. Ezra

    Ever see Chimps at the Zoo flinging pooh at eachother for no reason? You cannot tell be that Chimps and Congressmen did not spring from a common ancester.

    September 12, 2011 at 4:58 pm |
    • Joxer the Mighty

      You sir, are a comical genius!

      September 12, 2011 at 4:59 pm |
  93. driranek

    Evolution responds just as well to perverse incentives as it does to natural ones. When we provide a decent living to unemployed baby factories the gene pool really does get polluted.

    September 12, 2011 at 4:58 pm |
    • Stephen Charchuk

      Speaking from your own experience?

      September 12, 2011 at 5:12 pm |
  94. Bibletruth

    I am science educated and many of my friends are science educated, some at the university teaching level. Any person who says or even thinks that evolution is scientifically proven is 100% not science educated, or is hopelessly biased to say such a thing. Why this irrational clinging to the evolution theory as a fact when any rational scientic thought process (such as required for chemistry, physics, etc.) proves it is not. On the other hand, I have found that almost all bible believers (which of course means believing in the creation account as revealed in the scriptures) do not know how to present the exceedingly strong evidence that the bible is divinely inspired, and therefore that which is in the bible is truth. My bible believing friends, please learn to present the bible as a divinely inspired book to those that are skeptical or 100% disbelieving. They will then have to reject what they will see for themselves as truth in order to stay with the idea that evolution is scientific fact. Just ask yourself, what could God present to humanity (every mind of every culture through human history) to convince humanity that He exists and is the true God. And remember, we are talking evidence, not demonstration, as God cannot generally demonstrate to humanity and keep the universe intact because we cannot ever match divinity (all knowledge, all power, all presence). Therefore, there is always the element of faith with God (our faith in God).

    September 12, 2011 at 4:58 pm |
    • Ezra

      No way you are 'science educated" and the bible is a collection of myths, laws, poems and songs and seriously needed an editor.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:01 pm |
      • Stephen Charchuk

        Why? Its already been overly edited. That's why it is so contradictory.

        September 12, 2011 at 5:13 pm |
    • CharlesD

      Anyone who would use the term 'science educated' several times as though it were an actual label or phrase really isn't worth listening to any further.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:07 pm |
  95. Bob from Bellingham Ma

    Evolutionists believe that you get parts as you needed them. What about the eye. Please just read how complex the eye is. The eye is absolutely useless unless all the parts are there and functioning. Do you believe that the eye was evolving for millions of years and then one day started to work. Only a Creators design could have made that eye and it worked the day Adam was created.

    September 12, 2011 at 4:57 pm |
    • CharlesD

      Uh – no. Eyes are quite useful if all they do is let you tell the difference between light and dark, and even the blurriest blobs contain useful information. There is absolutely no problem positing intermediate stages in eye development. And many have, in fact, been found, both in the fossil record and in the extant corpus of living beings, where eyes with all sorts of "intermediate" development abound.

      Try bouncing your argument off any of the tens of millions of people who can still perceive light, shape, color or motion with their eyes yet are considered legally blind.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:11 pm |
    • Stephen Charchuk

      For your education.

      http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=evolution-of-the-eye

      September 12, 2011 at 5:19 pm |
  96. Scott

    Creationists' arguments against evolution almost universally are attacks on the fossil record. The evidence for evolution is, in fact, iron-clad even without the fossil record. If there were no fossils at all, the evidence would still be there in comparisons of geographically separated populations and in our very genes.

    Unfortunately, we tend to get drawn into such debates, giving creationists a soapbox, allowing them to define the terms, and allowing them to flat-out lie, without calling them on it, in some misguided deference to religious beliefs.

    September 12, 2011 at 4:57 pm |
    • Bob from Bellingham Ma

      Hi Scott – What is the provable evidence?

      September 12, 2011 at 5:00 pm |
  97. Trudy Eastland

    Everyone has it all wrong. God created male and female and that is the final word. I stand on his word. I didn't come from a monkey. God created Adam from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and than put him to sleep and opened up his side and took out a rib and make womam. Which came from man. When we die we go back to the dust and someday he will raise all christians and take them to heaven. That is the final word. Everyone will see someday the truth. I

    September 12, 2011 at 4:56 pm |
    • SarcasmIncarnate

      i only hope that someday you will see a science book, maybe even read it!

      September 12, 2011 at 4:58 pm |
    • JW

      Just Christians? What about people from pre-Christian eras? What about those that claimed in the Bible that God told them to kill women and children when they conquerd the "promised land" and claimed it for their own? They get to go to?

      September 12, 2011 at 5:04 pm |
    • Observer

      God apparently created another civilization at Nod, East of Eden, but never gave any details. Maybe that's where Steve came from when people refer to "Adam and Steve".

      September 12, 2011 at 5:06 pm |
    • CharlesD

      That's the version from Genesis 2. Then there's that pesky, alternative creation story in Genesis 1.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:14 pm |
  98. Jude Agho

    Sciences is the systematic study of nature (natural phenomenon). Science cannot answer questions on the existence of God or supernatural myths because such belief systems cannot be tested using well formed hypothesis. It is very crucial for most people to understand that Evolution doesn't endorse the non belief or belief of a God. The theory of evolution were based on observations that all of us here on earth must have notice in one way or the other. Darwin simply constructed those observations in to a theory. I don't think anyone would disagree that organisms living today are descendants of some ancestral species. If you look at the world around us there are two important observation you'll notice.
    1) Within every natural population of organisms, there exist natural variations among the different individuals. These is true. Look at natural populations of birds, they all vary be it color of wings, length of beak etc.
    2) With variation comes unequal reproductive success. The likelihood of individuals to succeed in their natural environment also differs among the different organisms. Not all organisms will survive a famine or flood. Individuals with certain heritable traits (genes) tend to accumulate more within a natural population. Over time, remember millions and millions of years these accumulated traits may make the present individuals look different than their previous ancestors. It is important to note that it is a population that evolves not an individual. Organisms do not decide to evolve but are selected naturally by environmental events. THESE ARE COMMON FACTS AND IN NO WAY REFUTE UR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS.

    September 12, 2011 at 4:55 pm |
    • colin in Florida

      Excellent work. Thanks.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:19 pm |
  99. Scott

    The whole idea is to use the brain that evolution, god, another intelligent race or combination of any gave us. Don't believe something because religion or the mass tell you or expect you to. Thats why you have the ability to reason!!! Think for yourself.

    September 12, 2011 at 4:55 pm |
  100. Robert

    I care far less about where I came from than where I'm going. Time in the physical realm moves in only one direction. I have absolute assurance about where I'm going because I'm not depending on myself to get there. Anyone who will can have the same assurance. There is such a thing as absolute truth. Ask a 9/11 jumper if they believed in the law of gravity. Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. Believe – Receive – Become.

    September 12, 2011 at 4:55 pm |
    • NOT MY CHAIR

      are you saying ignorance is bliss?

      September 12, 2011 at 5:15 pm |
    • CharlesD

      ...and then he died, and never said anything else.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:16 pm |
    • colin in Florida

      Your paragraph makes no sense. You bring up one of the most important laws of physics (Gravity), and then you appear to try and relate that to your god. If god were so benevolent, why did he let so many innocent people die on 9/11? Why did god kill millions of people on the bible, whereas the devil only killed is apparently 10 (the sons and daughters of Job).

      September 12, 2011 at 5:18 pm |
      • Stephen Charchuk

        Didn't you know? Its all part of god's plan and it is not up to us to understand it. [Note: Sarcasm]

        September 12, 2011 at 5:21 pm |
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