Your thoughts on evolution
Researchers found hand bones of an adult female Australopithecus sediba in Malapa, South Africa.
September 12th, 2011
12:56 PM ET

Your thoughts on evolution

We knew our story on a possible human ancestor called Australopithecus sediba would be controversial, but never expected more than 1,900 comments to come in.

The post generated some pretty intense discussions involving readers who do not believe these new findings - or any evidence of human evolution, for that matter - because of their religious beliefs.

blake

Maybe your ancestor, not mine. I was created in the image of God, not evolved from from some lifeless goo over billions of years. The accident of time and chance. I don't have enough faith to believe those kind of fantastical fairy tales.

Religious sentiments such as this received a lot of backlash from readers such as gary, who writes:

Evolution is fact. Deities and demons are pretend. Bible is folklore, myth, superstition and legend.

There's also a large contingent of readers who don't see a contradiction between accepting the facts of science and having religious faith. Judas Priest writes:

Excuse me, but why does believing in god mean denying the wonders of creation that you can see and touch and evaluate? How does accepting that the world is billions of years old, and the universe billions of years older still, deny god? How does observing that things change over time refute god in any way? Why must god, and god's creation, be small enough to be encompassed by your tiny little mind and your tiny little book?

The hundreds of comments that formed these discussions annoyed readers like Pav, who thinks people with religious reasons for denying evolution should take their beliefs elsewhere.

Mathematicians don't have to justify the Pythagorean theorem every time they apply it to a new proof, and scientists don't need to justify evolution every time they talk about a new fossil. So, stop it!

Of course, not everyone sees it this way - earth2loons feels that evolution is a lot more controversial than the Pythagorean theorem, writing:

"...when you must eliminate the possibility of a creator from your interpretation of the data because of your own agnostic or atheistic biases, you will see what you want and need to see."

It's obvious that a lot of people have very passionate views on this topic but, this being a science blog, we are going to report with the assumption that the prevailing, tested theory with the most rigorous evidence - evolution - is true. And CNN has a Belief Blog that fosters conversations about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives.

And there's a lot of misunderstanding about evolution; it's really not as clear cut as you might think. Reader John Hanson writes:

There is always controversy surrounding the "discovery" of fossils that are supposed to bridge apes to humans because they're always plagued by assumptions made by paleontologists. They touted "Peking Man" as the "link" in the fossil chain proving evolution, then came to discover bones of homo sapiens in the same pit. There are too many assumptions and too little PROOF.

The truth is that there is no simple chain of ancestry with a "missing link" that scientists are trying to find. When we talk about the lineage of Homo sapiens, we acknowledge that there were a whole bunch of ancient relatives of various anatomical forms, some of which are more closely related to us than others. Check out this piece from Science 2.0 on the "missing link fallacy" to learn more about the complexity of tracing the evolution of our species.

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Filed under: Human ancestors • On Earth
soundoff (3,534 Responses)
  1. Bill

    Wow, people still deny evolution?? Explains why this country is going to the shitter.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:20 pm |
    • dudley0418

      Explain to me how or why archaeopterix benefitted by a minute, scaly feather on it's reptile back. If you can do this then I will believe that reptiles became birds and in one of the ONLY transitional fossils in the animalia fossil record. Until then, not.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:26 pm |
      • Questionable

        Why do we have an appendix, some people have wisdom teeth and some don't.

        September 12, 2011 at 6:32 pm |
      • Test tuber

        Thermal insulation which can be dropped seasonally.

        Next?

        September 12, 2011 at 6:32 pm |
    • Test tuber

      dudley0418, I offered a plausible explanation for your question. So do you believe now?

      September 12, 2011 at 6:41 pm |
    • Deception9000

      I'll stay here where we're just marginally less ignorant than the rest of the world.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:52 pm |
  2. keltari

    I think its rather hypocritical for creationists to deny evolution. They denounce the science that supports the theory of evolution. Yet, they happily use and accept the same science for other reasons on a daily basis. They put faith before reason and people suffer for it. The church has been proving wrong, time and time again. They killed Galileo for his heliocentric beliefs, does any Christian alive still believe the Sun revolves around the earth? Sooner or later, they will have to accept the reality that their faith has nothing to do with words written in a book.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:20 pm |
    • Jimmy Khan

      Of course Islam does not have the same baggage as you have indicated. We see no issue with scientists "attempting" to explain the origin of life with their tiny (compared to what really is out there) knowledge base. We just want people to be open minded to realize that limitation and not be driven by our arrogance and bigoted stance.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:33 pm |
      • Deception9000

        A lot of religious texts are a bunch of baggage. Yes including yours. The books were all written by both bigoted and the oppressed. Moses, Mohammad, John (as compiled by later generations) all wrote laws in the form of religious texts in reaction to some kind of political entity acting against their people under some kind of persecution. Do this, do not do this or else, etc.

        September 12, 2011 at 6:43 pm |
      • Jimmy Khan

        @Deception ... do you have any proof for your assertion or is this just a emotive outburst? 🙂

        September 12, 2011 at 6:56 pm |
  3. Randell

    I think that when God created us in his image that was to say that he created our souls in the likeness of his, invisible, weightless, and eternal. This is just opinion or brainstorming really and as fun to talk about as politics but even scientists will tell you if it is in their field that there are allot of things that happen around us all the time that we cannot explain. How bout the fact that our visible spectrum of light that we see is very small and there are indeed many different spectrums that we need machines to see and maybe many more that we do not know about. How many dimensions exist for example, eight or nine, I lost count as to what todays science tells us. This is good talk to have over a beer or caffeine free soda if your into that sort of thing. 🙂

    September 12, 2011 at 6:19 pm |
    • Deception9000

      Religion, all religion, is man derived. I'm not sure what they were imbibing but it may have been beer. They may have been think just as you are now.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:34 pm |
  4. wmskadder

    if your a beliver in the Bible, which was written over time and by many authors who's stories "evolved" (who validated these writing as they were being written??) then you must question it;s validity. Faith is not an absolute anwer to anything. science proves and givensyou something to touch. evolution does not discount "your" God creating the heavens and earth. "pretty monumentoal task". Creatures come and go. I;d rather believe in something I can touch smell, and see rather than trust in blind faith. Your God gave you a brain to use and decimiate truth from fiction, it;s not a sin to question (religious people). What happens when life is found elsewhere? what does that do to your belief system, belief of the crucifiction, etc. Yes Jesus might have been here, but this man called Jesus was no more than a man with special talents of hundreds, thousands, of the same that live today preaching the gospel and doing good deeds. Life on another planet most likey have their own story to tell. We as humans are weak, we need someone to give us answers, a crutch so we have an excuse. We can;t blame ourselves of our short comings, if there even is such a thing. To you belivers, God is the "Universe" who probably created other funny looking species elsewhere who evolved into whatever. Common sense and logic tells you we have and continue to evolve, GET OVER IT

    September 12, 2011 at 6:19 pm |
  5. Jimmy Khan

    So let me get this straight ... at one point this earth was nothing but rubble, with all sorts of atoms whizzing around. Then gradually over the years, through this magic known as "evolution" things started to appear on this earth that could move, think, reproduce on their own! ...and now, I look at myself and see the function of different parts of my body that are vital for my being alive and all this came about by this magic called "evolution". Wow! tell me more of these fairy tales!

    Folks, need to realize that we humans have very tiny understanding of the universe out there. The scientific knowledge that we so much rely on to conclude our origin is limited by our ability to perceive the world. Before the EM waves were discovered who would have believed that we would be able to beam live video streams from far off stars? So what other phenomena is yet to be discovered that will give us more insight into the universe around us? Certainly, no scientist is going to bet his or her life on stating that we know "everything" about the universe there is to know.

    This is where faith comes in. Faith takes us beyond the barriers of the scientific knowledge. The origin of life is one of those topics that is beyond what science can prove one way or the other. It is certainly possible that the artifacts from the creation do seem like the "evolution" has taken place. If the Creator is one, it makes sense that the life He created follow a certain pattern and share common genes etc. Can science prove that this is not the case? So it goes back to the selection of the statistical null hypothesis to prove the origin of life. If you start with "life evolved", yes you are going to get positive results but you are also going to get positive match had you started with "life was created".

    Bottom line, even evolution takes a leap of faith to explain the origin of life.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:19 pm |
    • David

      So much text with so little content. Evolution has absolutely nothing to say about the origin of life. Look up the 'god of the gaps' and argument from ignorance fallacies. "Faith is a cop-out. It is intellectual bankruptcy. If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't stand on its own merits." – Dan Barker
      .

      September 12, 2011 at 6:25 pm |
      • Jimmy Khan

        David, when we ask a question, how did we originate, we are told that we "evolved" from lower forms of life. So the connection of the origin of life to the evolution is made by the atheists not me.

        September 12, 2011 at 6:54 pm |
    • Questionable

      So let me get this straight. One day there was just a God who could do whatever he pleases?

      September 12, 2011 at 6:26 pm |
    • Deception9000

      So let ME get this straight....you think we came from rocks?

      September 12, 2011 at 6:30 pm |
      • Deception9000

        In so far as rocks are amino acids, proteins and such...you are right, yes we do. 😉

        September 12, 2011 at 6:31 pm |
    • Test tuber

      The ironic thing is that the very scenario you are describing is (spontaneous life) is coming closer and closer to happening in labs, which you would know if you were scientifically literate, with organic building blocks of life having been spontaneously created from inert matter under artificial lab conditions which mimic early earth. Sometime, likely in the next 10-20 years, if not sooner, real genesis is going to happen all over again in a test tube, and the book will be forever slammed shut on creationism.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:30 pm |
    • Answer

      I really like to know where religion can physically take you. I bet to nowhere but a quick death.

      "Ohh look we don't need to a rocket and all these fuel to get us into space! We can pray for God to help us."
      Scenario – You all just sit praying and rot til you die.

      "Let's see how we are going to cross this desert?" We don't need to pay attention to how much days of water a human can survive without it." You'll collapse after three days.

      "Oh a snake!" Let's talk to it. – Do go on and be your routine stupid selves.

      September 13, 2011 at 2:55 am |
  6. leftover

    A reasonable reaction to the issue might be found in the old Galileo standard…
    "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."
    …because it was Jesus, after all, (if memory serves), who taught The Apostles…
    "From each according to their ability. To each according to their need."
    …but in these times, and after reading many of the comments, I'm inclined to go with H.L. Mencken…
    "A man full of faith is simply one who has lost, (or never had), the capacity for clear and realistic thought. He is not a mere ass: he is actually ill."

    September 12, 2011 at 6:19 pm |
  7. BuckeyeJim

    I think the mechanism of evolution DNA and the mapping of DNA sequences to proteins is the best example of intelligent design. It is unique, effective, universal, and totally arbitrary.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:18 pm |
    • Deception9000

      The term "intelligent design" is being ripped off by those that don't want to be seen for what they are: religionists. There's nothing intelligent in the concept. It's a fad term that "tries" to allow a religion to co-exist with science.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:29 pm |
  8. Peikovian

    Whatever a provincial Rabbi in Rome's empire had to say about the geography of Tennessee was as valid as what he had to say about evolution. He said nothing on either subject.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:18 pm |
  9. EnergyBeing3

    Science is not a form of religion. Scientists don't come together to eat the body and drink the blood of Darwin or some previous Scientist who made profound discoveries. Scientists don't come together and do repetitive rituals without having healthy debates. Scientists welcome new discoveries and healthy debate with skepticism. Scientists aren't interested in passing judgements on those who are different and they don't use a parental 'Reward of Punishment' system to try and control each other or those of the Science Community. Scientists don't rely on outdated stories of outlandish claims to live their life by. They aren't interested in oppressing repressing or torturing other people who don't follow their discoveries or new-found beliefs of how the world works.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:18 pm |
    • Deception9000

      Yes it does! It's the secret order of the Freemasons! j/k

      September 12, 2011 at 6:25 pm |
    • Jimmy Khan

      Hmmmm....I see lot of fundamentalist, science-bigoted atheists trying to ram this "theory" down people's throats.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:28 pm |
  10. Common Sense

    In the big scheme of things, IT DOESN'T MATTER. Even if we could prove where we came from, so what? Look forward to the future, not to some romanticized past life we may or may not have had. Seriously guys, why even bother arguing?

    September 12, 2011 at 6:17 pm |
  11. Byrd

    Evolution does occur, but it's not limited to just monkeys. Take a good look around. The sharks and weasels are easy to spot – lawyers and politicians – but there are others as well.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:17 pm |
    • Deception9000

      LOL yes.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:23 pm |
    • dudley0418

      There are differences between evolution and adaptation.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:23 pm |
  12. Aimsplode

    Here is the basic rundown, right here:

    Evolution is REAL.
    Those who don't believe in it are IDIOTS.
    There is NO GOD.

    Do you guys understand that now?
    The end.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:15 pm |
    • Deception9000

      Course but true.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:22 pm |
  13. Brother Harry Hardwick

    Only APPROVED TRUE Christians will see Lord. Read and believe, or deny and die!

    http://www.landoverbaptist.org/

    Do you so-called Christians on this forum believe for one second that you are anointed like us TRUE Christians? I doubt it. Follow and become a TRUE Christian!

    September 12, 2011 at 6:15 pm |
    • Jeff

      hahahahahaha, do I have to read the King James bible also?

      September 12, 2011 at 6:17 pm |
      • Jeff

        God is an Old English speaking Baptist don't you know 😉

        September 12, 2011 at 6:18 pm |
    • Aimsplode

      It is obvious, "Brotha' ", that you are a total idiot, raised by parents telling you to read some fairy-tale book called the "Bible", a book of make-believe characters and events, with no proof behind it's story.

      Is ignorance bliss? You should know: your a "soul" who does it (to Science) every day.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:19 pm |
    • Deception9000

      I deny anything you spew that denies science. Update the roman catholic bible to 2011 with facts and I will support your cause. Facts being without euphemisms.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:20 pm |
    • Answer

      How does this Brother see himself?

      Of course he considers himself a true believer .. why won't he? It's funny how he doesn't want think about his possibility of being denied a place in heaven.

      Well keep at it Brother, you'll eventually convince yourself that you've been mailed a real ticket to heaven. Just keeping on telling it to yourself. Oh can I get a photo of that ticket once you receive it? Thanks. I want to see what fonts God uses.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:21 pm |
    • Byrd

      Following in blind obedience never got anyone anywhere good. And after the dust has cleared and the bodies are burned or buried, they're also the ones who end up crying, "But we didn't know...".

      September 12, 2011 at 6:21 pm |
  14. Rick

    This is really awful... (evolution/religion debate)
    And to think that America is the greatest country on earth... The greatest army, etc...
    Rick in Canada

    September 12, 2011 at 6:15 pm |
  15. Sassan Darian

    IF you're going to believe in god – believe in god – but don't be so irrational about it that you no longer have the minute semblance of rationality and reason. I am speaking to those fundamentalists who believe the Earth is less than 10,000 years old and don't understand the fact that evolution is only a theory as in relation to scientific terms in that gravity is a "theory" too. Fossils are beautiful and fantastic and help us fill the missing pieces in the history of our evolution; but now with scientific advancements and the power of genetics and the mapping of our genome and the genome of other species – we can observe the beauty and power of evolution inside the laboratory...it is not something that is in dispute in even 0,00001% of the scientifically illiterate. In the western world – this lack of rationality puts a mark of our illiteracy and fundamentalism in contrast to our European brethren – and as a result, we are lacking in science and math literacy in the western world.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:15 pm |
    • dudley0418

      Search: Gregor Mendel. Monastics kept science alive in the dark ages. There are many scientists with faith. Many scientists see god in each new discovery. Doctors revel in the newly-discovered abilities of the human body and those of other animals. Spontaneous regeneration and recovery are a matter of fact and doctors shake their heads at it. True, things usually occur in an expected manner, but not always. There is much to learn. The GRAND UNIFIED THEORY – why do you suppose that scientists are looking for one, single, all encompassing theory that will link all sciences, and why do folks like Steven Hawking delve now more into philosophy and the manner of interpretation of knowledge and information? They realize that there must be some control, some single entity that can define all things. What else is it but God?

      September 12, 2011 at 6:22 pm |
  16. Gekaap

    Creationism is an affront to the greatness of God. After all, what's more impressive, someone who grabs a handful of clay and makes Gumby? Or someone who creates an intricate and complex system that allows for monumental self development over billions of years from a simple beginning?

    September 12, 2011 at 6:13 pm |
  17. Jorge the Alien

    Why does it matter on beliefs of how we started? Who cares where we came from, or how we were created. The more people sit and complain about this subject the less and less it matters. Science and a 3,000+ year old book does not give us an answer, nor will it ever. Every faith conflicts with each other of how we were created, so somewhere down the line, everyone is wrong. I could sit here and say that aliens created us and that I am right and everyone else is wrong! I have just as much proof as science and religious folk do. It's called Google, my followers, biblical evidence, cave man drawings and word of mouth!

    September 12, 2011 at 6:13 pm |
    • Deception9000

      It only matters in so far as religion dictates social customs. This is important if you don't want to be ridiculed or even killed for denying a deity. The debate goes on here because of our freedoms. This isn't so in much of the world. And much more so before the internet.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:17 pm |
      • ahpiii

        Deception9000 hits the nail on the head about social freedoms and religion's power over that.

        September 12, 2011 at 6:21 pm |
    • myslant

      You said: Who cares how life got started? Are you serious?

      September 12, 2011 at 6:24 pm |
    • Answer

      Jorge

      Would you consider a crack head for president? Would you consider in naming your cat to the position?

      September 12, 2011 at 6:25 pm |
  18. Drew

    Evolution is not true. It never has been proven, it's just a theory. You can never make something out of nothing unless you have an intellegent designer. I believe Jehovah God created everything. Look at all of creation and tell me there is not a CREATOR!

    September 12, 2011 at 6:12 pm |
    • Deception9000

      Evolution IS FACT! Is all science a mockery?

      September 12, 2011 at 6:15 pm |
    • ahpiii

      But why oh why does the CREATOR of all things have to fit within a box of religious dogma? If there is a CREATOR, no human on Earth has a clue about who/what it is. Yet we kill in the name of that creator because our story about him is different from their story. And if someone says they know what he/she/it is, they are either a liar or a lunatic. Spirituality is fine, religion is bad.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:19 pm |
    • EnergyBeing3

      Evolution is change. We go through change every second of every day. Our human process is evolutionary. This planet, the solar system, the expanding universe, is changing... constantly. It's all evolution.

      Even religions have gone through changes and evolutions. You'd be a fool and blind to not realize this truth.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:21 pm |
    • Gekaap

      You clearly do not understand what "theory" means in the scientific sense. Einstein gave us the "theories" of special and general relativity. Maxwell, the "theory" of electromagnetism. Copernicus and Galileo gave us heliocentric "theory." Hooke gave us cell "theory." Pasteur gave us germ "theory." But all of these are understood be to thoroughly proven to be true.

      In the context of science the word "theory" refers to a complex explanation of natural phenomena that has been supported by a wealth of evidence, and can be used to predict other hitherto unobserved phenomena. The "only a theory" babble that many people complain about with evolution really irritates me because it is proof positive that the person making the objection has no knowledge or understanding of science, and is thus unqualified to make the objection in the first place.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:23 pm |
    • Earthling

      I just looked. There is not a creator. At least not in the anthropomorphic sense that you mean.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:27 pm |
  19. Questionable

    One day you come home from church to find that the window next to the door is broken, the door is unlocked (you always lock the door), there is a rock on the floor that looks like it was thrown through the window, and your 50 inch plasma screen is gone. You check the house, but find no intruder so you call the police.
    The detective arrives.
    You: "Hey. Got here faster than I thought yall would." You live in a big city, the police are usually pretty busy.
    Detective: "Yeah well there was no traffic and really no other calls. Must have been a mirical from God."
    You: "Ha yeah probably so."
    You go on to explain what you found when you got home from church, explain that you don't think anyone that you know has any motive. The detective looks around, talks to the neighbors (they didn't hear or see a thing), and he snoops around for more clues. He find nothing.
    Detective: "Well I really dont see much, must have been God."
    You: "Huh? Oh haha right." you say sarcastically.
    Detective: "Have you done anything to make God angry lately sir."
    You: "Hahah" then you realize he is serious. "What?! No! Are you crazy?"
    Detective "Well sir I see no evidence of an intruder and nor did your neighbors, it makes sence. You probably did something wrong and God is punishing you for it."
    You: "What! You've got to be kidding me." you detest "What about the broken glass....the unlocked door. I always lock my door!"
    Detective: "First of all sir. You can't prove you locked the door. And even if you did, God likely broke it with this rock to unlock it. You see this type of rock is not very common around these parts."
    You think to yourself and try to deside if this guy is serious or what?! He must be joking.
    You: "Why would God need to use a rock?....Huh?" Lets see how he deals with this.
    Detective: "Well God works in misterious ways sir."
    What! Oh come on he cant be serious.
    Detective: "If it makes you feel any better I can call the crime lab and have them come over here and check for prints."
    You: "Yeah that would be great." Really, I mean duh! Why wouldn't they check for prints you think to yourself. God? Seriously? I mean how many B and Es are done by God?
    Almost on cue
    Detective: "You know, we've had a few of these cases recently. Not much evidence, I just have faith that it is God."
    You: "Lets just see what the crime lab finds." Ugh this guy is a nut, how on earth did he become a detective.
    The crime lab personel arrive 15 minutes later. They search for prints, and take yours and a few of your friends so they can rule out those. Other than that they don't find anything.
    Detective: "We'll call you once we process the print."
    You: "Thanks." you say to him with a look of annoyance.
    A few days later you get a call from the detective.
    You: "Did you find any prints other than mine and my friends"
    Detective: "Well yeah." he says hesitantly
    Good! You knew they would find something, see it wasn't God.
    Detective: "I still think its God sir"
    You: "WHAT!"
    Detective: "You see the prints didnt match anyone in our data base, so its only reasonable to suspect God did this to you."
    You hang up.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:11 pm |
  20. mark

    People that believe in evolution do so only because they dont want to face a God who has authority over their lives and to whom they will have to give an account for their sins.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:09 pm |
    • Deception9000

      It's unfair to hold others to account for fake deity proverbs.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:12 pm |
    • Earthling

      That doesn't make much sense. If god did exist, wouldn't I have to face him either way.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:29 pm |
  21. Steve in The Woodlands, TX

    God created (ie. – "molded" "evolved") Man through the natural course of evolution so that Man would recognize he is an integral part of his environment, this Earth, and forever cherish and respect it. God must be re-thinking "free will" because we certainly have not lived up to his or the planet's expectations.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:09 pm |
  22. Deception9000

    "Intelligent design". That is an oxymoron. Semi-morons trying to sound intelligent so they can adapt to a sophisticated society. Theologians must have paid an advertising firm alot for the term. Typical for a theologist to try and scientifically deduce the existence of a deity.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:09 pm |
    • dudley0418

      Actually, intelligent design came from a Dr. Behe of Lehigh University. He was universally excoriated for his QUESTIONS, not any proofs on his part. I have seen him speak and he absolutely refuses to make a link between Intelligent Design and God. More facts for the fact-less.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:12 pm |
      • Deception9000

        The term as applied (by usurpers possibly?) by christian fundamentalists is oxymoronic. Not unlike when HP printer users call copies a xerox.

        September 12, 2011 at 7:00 pm |
    • ScienceSoma

      Dudley – I knew you were a Behe parrot. I read Darwin's Black Box – it is ridiculous. Every aspect of Behe's concept of irreducible complexity has been shattered. It fails on every level, every example. It fails to remotely convince scientists. The so called "scientists" who have signed on with the Discovery Institute have not produced one single journal acceptable paper, and Ben Stein's skewed take on how the scientific community reviews papers for publication is a fictional insult. These are terrible people to quote or follow in terms of evolution ideas. Their ideas have been destroyed time and time again.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:54 pm |
  23. anotherfatperson

    no one really knows. There's no shame in that.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:09 pm |
    • Deception9000

      The shame is that religions try to claim they DO KNOW though! They're all car/snake oil salesmen!

      September 12, 2011 at 6:11 pm |
  24. jim

    Evolution is no more a theory than is the theory that 5 and 5 make 10. They do, and anyone with 10 stones can prove it.Simple logic dictates evolution MUST happen. Consider some simple everyday facts:
    1 Offspring tend to resemble thier parents, but have differences. Parents of every species produce more offspring than suirvive- on average only two suirive, to replace each parent.
    2 Siblings resemble thier siblings but have differences
    3 Our environments are extremely complex and ever changing. In any group of siblings, some will have characteristics that allow them to survive more frequently that the others (eg the faster rabbits will get caught by the fox less often, and will survive to reproductive age more often)n abd they will be the survivors
    4 The survivors will pass these traits to thier offspring (see 1)
    5 Over time, all members of the species will come to have those traits-evolution will have occured.
    It really isnt rocket science, and we see it happening every day in the microbial and insect world, where lifespans are short enough for us to observe evolution happening. Darwing observed and figured this out long ago- but now all our amzing tools of modern science have allowed us to work out the molecular mechanisms (DNA, mutaions by UV light etc) by which evoklution occurs. I

    September 12, 2011 at 6:08 pm |
    • Earthling

      I can appreciate your desire to equate the methods of "proof" that are used in science and math, but your claim is not accurate. The statement 5 + 5 = 10 is a theorem in the formal axiomatic system of arithmetic. It is, indeed, proved. Scientific theories such as evolution, however, are not proved but corroborated by accumulating evidence. Its always possible for new evidence to "disprove" an accepted theory. Of course, the evidence accumulated in favor of evolution is so great that the chance of it being discredited is next to nil (in my opinion).

      September 12, 2011 at 6:43 pm |
  25. Rick

    Only in America.... this debate (religion/evolution).
    Come on America... grow up and believe in basic science !!!
    So discouraging to read this...
    Rick in Canada

    September 12, 2011 at 6:08 pm |
  26. dudley0418

    You have faith in evolution. Others have faith in God. It is my hope that each of you gets what you wish. During my life I have seen many more scientific errors and retractions than I have seen religion-based ones. That is a fact.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:08 pm |
    • Answer

      Dudley,

      Do you know what correcting a mistake is? Man does presume to make his thoughts known. If man is wrong, the obvious thing to do is admit a mistake.

      If you do not know where this leads .. then I am not going to question it anymore.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:29 pm |
    • Earthling

      I dont have faith in evolution. I simply believe it. Faith is belief without evidence. I have lots of evidence that evolution is, in fact, true.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:50 pm |
  27. Stephen Charchuk

    Here is a link to a site that goes into detail on refuting all of creationist's claims against evolution.

    http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/list.html

    September 12, 2011 at 6:08 pm |
    • dudley0418

      ...and like Bart Simpson says about TV, the same with the internet: "If it's on TV it's GOT to be true."

      September 12, 2011 at 6:09 pm |
      • Answer

        Dudley,

        That's a fail.

        September 12, 2011 at 6:30 pm |
      • Stephen Charchuk

        It helps if you read the references provided...... The bible doesn't have any references, its all hearsay......

        September 12, 2011 at 6:40 pm |
  28. EnergyBeing3

    Can anything exist outside of our human senses? The experience and the one who experiences are always one. The illusion is that of separation. Consciousness is constantly changing, constantly evolving.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:06 pm |
  29. K2T

    This means that evolution does not acknowledge a missing link. Since a missing link means that there must be predetermined "form". Evolution believes things change due to natural selection. So evolution by definition evolution can not recognize a missing link.

    The author ignores the fact that evolution can not be tested. DNA from neanderthal proves it to be homo sapaiens. Tested and it failed.
    Only when you have a low threshold for prove does evolution pass.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:05 pm |
    • ahpiii

      All this talk of proof makes my head hurt. If I told you I was sleeping with your wife, you'd probably want proof. If you told me God created everything in 6 days, guess what?

      September 12, 2011 at 6:13 pm |
  30. Kris

    No where does it say you have to deny your faith (whatever it may be) to except the science of evolution.

    there are many theists that accept evolution and rightly so.

    Lets stop separating the theists from evolution and speak truthfully with each other.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:04 pm |
  31. and scene

    Religion is lunacy. You talk, at length, and give money to, disturbing amounts, an invisible friend. And then you bark at physical findings and theories based on physical evidence. The best part about science is that it has the ability to be wrong until they discover the truth. Religion is based on "truth" and is always being proven wrong.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:04 pm |
    • EnergyBeing3

      The Science Community thrives of healthy skepticism. It motives itself to find more discoveries and truths.

      Religion would die off if everyone had more skepticism and suspension of disbelief. Religion needs followers with blind faith who will give allegiance to it's lies and outlandish stories. Religion is dieing off as this new age of humans grows and evolves with newer understandings.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:10 pm |
  32. Tom

    The truth is that most Atheists don't believe in a God because they don't want there to be a God. They are just as closed minded as the person who denies the evidence of pre-human forms.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:03 pm |
    • ScienceSoma

      No sir, you could not be more incorrect. Most American atheists did believe in the Judeo-Christian god and found that the Bible, its tenets, the character of that god, and the constant bellowing of superior morality and intervention in human affairs espoused by its followers is not based in reality. I do not want or not want there to be a god or gods, I want my perception of reality to be as close to accurate as a human mind can attain. This does not encompass including the mythology of Bronze Age Palestinians, Greeks, Romans, Mesopotamians, Egyptians, or any other man-made stories meant to explain a world that we have long since learned far more about.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:10 pm |
    • lol

      why wouldn't someone want to believe that the universe was created by a god with them in mind? why wouldn't someone want to believe that they are the apple of this god's eye? why wouldn't someone want to spend "eternity" in paradise? the world is unfair and cruel, and sometimes i do wish there was a god. but that is not reality. humans are extremely proficient at deceiving themselves, especially when there's an emotional aspect. things would be way cooler if Santa Clause and unicorns existed, they just don't. part of growing up is accepting that imaginary friends don't exist either.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:13 pm |
    • Answer

      Tom,

      For you to be preaching truth you have to provide evidence. All of your words are conjectures of your opinion.
      Closeminded. That is you.

      This is my opinion of you. That is the truth of my statement.
      Can you adequately state that what you have said is just your opinion and only an opinion? I bet you would not.
      It would deflate your own statement to be false. So therefore you will not back down from that point. That is truth.

      Your own words hurt your position.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:35 pm |
  33. Kevin

    Evolution is real, but that humans evolved from monkeys, or fish, or wombats is STILL theory. Science has yet to provide evidence of that common ancestor they assert we share. That 98 of 100 scientists agree it happened doesn't make it any more real than creationism without the proof.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:03 pm |
    • Tooey

      ahh, yet another person who fails to understand what exactly makes something a "scientific theory".

      September 12, 2011 at 6:06 pm |
      • Kevin

        No, I understand it exactly.

        September 12, 2011 at 6:08 pm |
    • ScienceSoma

      You do not. Scientific laws are observations, scientific theories are explanations based on observations. People use the words "theory" and "idea" interchangeable in common parlance. A theory in science is not the same as the colloquial definition. A theory will never change into a law, it is solid and comprehensive as it is.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:19 pm |
  34. ScienceSoma

    Proponents of intelligent design can protest all they wish and we can have message board debates for lifetimes. However, a simple truth remains: anyone who can bring forth solid evidence that is contrary to evolution, that could not have possibly come about through this natural mechanism of population dynamics, will win the Nobel Prize because it will be an earth shattering discovery. As a real life scientist who works with DNA on a daily basis, I would be excited by the prospect of any discovery that scientifically changes what we know about how our universe works. But the intelligent designers must know: we did not get to this level of understanding overnight. Evolution is commonly known today because other scientists made that amazing discovery when they put the pieces together – and they have fit ever since. Just as it would take an unfathomable kind of evidence to show that the sun actually orbits the earth, it would take equally extraordinary evidence to show that evolution is not the process by which life changes with time.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:01 pm |
    • dudley0418

      It's still a theory, not a fact. It is unproven since it is full of so many holes. Ask anyone who makes their living within the field. They may say that it is near-fact, almost fact, will someday be fact, but all they can really say right now is that, "According to the evidence we now FEEL to be accurate, since we have no actual way of knowing since we cannot watch of video of the history of the planet, we think this theory is likely to be proven beyond the shadow of doubt someday. But until that day, it's still a theory." That's all that can be said, factually, SS.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:05 pm |
      • ScienceSoma

        Dudley – it is a theory in the same sense that you have a great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great grandfather. You cannot watch a home video of him, see a picture taken of him, and yet you could still trace your lineage, and even if not, you know he certainly had to exist because you know your father had a father and he had a father because this is how nature works. It really is not just an idea that's moving about in a bunch of humans heads. As for anyone in the field saying it may be considered a fact one day, I respectfully question the biologists you have been speaking to. The molecular evidence is unshakable.

        September 12, 2011 at 6:27 pm |
      • Deception9000

        lol You sound like that scientist at the beginning of 'Planet of the Apes'. "It's only a theory til you prove it".
        Great movie. 😉

        September 12, 2011 at 7:05 pm |
    • ahpiii

      Dudley was created a few days ago from a clump of earth, so he may not understand this "father" thing.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:33 pm |
  35. I love Andrew

    Hi Andrew. I'm married. But I love you. Just wanted to let you know you have a fan.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:01 pm |
    • Andrew

      Yay! I have a married fan! It's good to be popular 😛

      September 12, 2011 at 11:33 pm |
  36. mike

    hahah - blake, you're incredibly ignorant. Evolution is fact.. the only fairy tale is that of Adam and Eve.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:00 pm |
  37. GRB

    Evolution is not consistent with the laws of Physics. A living entity does not progess from less complexity to greater complexity. Complexity is 'introduced' at a point in time.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:00 pm |
    • Stephen Charchuk

      That's one of the arguments that many creationists warn against using now.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:47 pm |
  38. dudley0418

    Evolution – two words: transitional fossils. There ain't any. If someone can explain to me why a reptile would benefit by having a scaly feather on its back (especially the first, tiniest, suggestion of a hint of one some millions of years prior to the famous fossil) then perhaps I can get on with the theory. Evolutionists had to change their tune from small changes over eons to catastrophic, geologically instantaneous change position since their theories and the fossil record did not match. OK, that's science, but the theory is still full of holes. Like a mousetrap – many species have parts or portions that simply DO NOT WORK without all of the parts they now possess. They could not have evolved since their functions would not simply be less efficient, they WOULD NOT WORK at all. The theory is full of holes and is mathematically unsound. Period. There is not way out of those arguments, logically. It still needs a LOT of work.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:00 pm |
    • ahpiii

      Creation – two words: No Proof

      September 12, 2011 at 6:07 pm |
      • dudley0418

        Creationism is religion, not science. It is a belief, not a science. It is a view of life, living and death. It is a philosophy, not a hard science. You ask for proof. Prove to me that you love your mother. I can send her flowers, be nice, be thoughtful, even make myself look like her, but you cannot prove a feeling or a belief. It's like telling someone who doesn't like broccoli that they cannot not like broccoli because you have proof that it tastes good.

        You are a silly person.

        September 12, 2011 at 6:15 pm |
    • ahpiii

      I dunno. The Bible tells me to believe every single word in it as fact, and to not leave any out. And if I don't believe I'm going to suffer in the afterlife. And to not obey every rule in the Bible is going against God's word. Seriously, when's the last time you stoned someone to death for working on Sunday? It's in there, you know. Can't overlook it. The Bible is many things to many people. If it works as a crutch for you, so be it. But don't make others hobble around with it.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:30 pm |
    • ScienceSoma

      Dudley – you want to see a transitional fossil? Dig up your grandmother. You want to see a transitional fossil in the making? Look in the mirror. EVERY fossil is a transitional fossil. Evolution does not actually have firm breaks. We find fossils that are drastically different and know because of these differences that they are a different species, but they had parents and children just like any other organism. If you could watch the timeline, you would not be able to see a parent of one species give birth to a child of another. Also, "show me the fossils" is just another creationist bullet point, bumper sticker mantra. It's something you say in an argument based on a vacuum of knowledge in your social circle.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:32 pm |
    • ScienceSoma

      Also, channel Behe all you want by rephrasing irreducible complexity "Like a mousetrap – many species have parts or portions that simply DO NOT WORK without all of the parts they now possess". His IC idea has been proven wrong at every turn, specifically by Kenneth Miller, and wrong enough to be considered embarrassing in an American court of law.
      " The theory is full of holes and is mathematically unsound" I like how you do not elaborate on why it is mathematically unsound and instead just parrot William Dembski's disproven ideas on the improbability of evolution. I would highly suggest getting your ideas from people who make conclusions based on observations, rather than those who start with conclusions and search for a way to make reality match. The Discovery Institute is a disgrace and there is no controversy to teach.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:45 pm |
  39. jacks

    If God created us in his image, then who created him? I know! A monkey.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:00 pm |
  40. Deception9000

    Evolution is fact. Evolution is debatable because it isn't complete. Religion denies facts. Religion corrupts truths. Religion isn't even good for philosophy. Religion is emotionally driven. Philosophy at least bases judgement on evidence, on facts and not political beliefs. Religion IS a political tool for institutional powers like the catholic church, or islamic, or any deity influenced government. If someone is religious, they deny reality. In a post-religious world, there will be greater advancements in evolutionary science and science in general free from fear to flourish.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:59 pm |
    • dudley0418

      Evolution is a theory. Ask anyone with a PhD in it.

      Go away. You don't have the game. You know, The Game, la cabeza. You don't have it.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:02 pm |
      • David

        You have no clue what a scientific theory is, or what the difference is between a scientific theory and a hypothesis. Consult any grade school science text book.

        September 12, 2011 at 6:52 pm |
      • Deception9000

        There are theories on evolution. However, evolution itself is a fact.

        September 12, 2011 at 7:06 pm |
  41. cestlavie3

    When I die and enter the presence of God, if He were to inform me that evolution was the mechanism by which He brought humanity into existence, it would be of no surprise. Macro evolution in no way changes the character of God, my view of Scripture, or any theological doctrine of the Christian faith. Sorry, evolution is not the atheists trump card.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:59 pm |
    • Tom

      It is actually their weakness, as there still are no intermediate forms. But just as bad are the religious zealots who insist that the world is 4000 years old.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:01 pm |
    • Answer

      You lot are always so eager to place your bets – it's always this side bet that you will go to heaven.

      It's so funny.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:38 pm |
    • Answer

      Just look at the way you talk. Man it's hilarious.

      I assert my heaven in my mind. I will meet with God and then laugh at their trump card. i will laugh with God, about evidence. I will be loved by God.

      You clearly really need God.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:40 pm |
      • cestlavie3

        Perhaps next time you could string together a few coherent sentences?

        September 12, 2011 at 9:55 pm |
  42. tor5

    Public misunderstanding of science is profound. No theory is “proved.” Scientists don’t talk that way. And in understanding the detailed mechanisms of evolution there is bound to be some debate. But evolution isn’t just any theory. It is the foundation of the life sciences upon which more than a century of studies and findings from diverse fields are based and provide evidence consistent with the theory. If you reject evolution, you really shouldn’t be seeing a doctor or taking any medication because modern medicine would not exist without the theory of evolution. We would know almost nothing about disease, genetics, or the natural world.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:58 pm |
  43. Richard Klingler

    I believe in evolution and religion. I think we became man when we were given soles from God. I believe that we evolved and were created. I believe the bible is real and that it has been interpreted many times and is still subject to interpretation. It is a guide to life, and that the only clear rules that we have to live by are the Ten Commandments. Life is short and I do hope and prepare for the afterlife because wouldn't it suck if there was nothing after death.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:57 pm |
    • EnergyBeing3

      Be mindful of how you can be swayed through your fears of the unknown. If you let go of that fear, you can't be brainwashed as easily and you'll find a new form of liberation and self-empowerment in your human process. Be mindful of your own "mind cages" ... yes, religious beliefs can enslave people's minds.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:01 pm |
      • Felix

        Science could also be a religion

        September 12, 2011 at 6:02 pm |
  44. Auntie Warhol

    All you have to do is watch an episode of "Toddlers In Tiaras" to know that there is no sucha thang as evilution.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:57 pm |
  45. Tom

    Did our nearest ancestor, say homo erectus squat and out popped homo sapiens? Where are the intermediate forms? The bible says creatures were made after their kind, and that is exactly what the rock record indicates. Sorry, just the facts.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:56 pm |
  46. David

    It amazes me that the same people who continually demand more and more evidence for evolution before they will consider even the possibility of its validity are the same people who believe in stories about a talking snake and magical trees, a worldwide flood, angels, demons, men rising from the dead, and all sorts of ridiculous superstition with no more evidence than the writings of a handful of bronze-age goat herders. This may be religious hypocrisy and willful ignorance at its finest.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:55 pm |
    • Believer

      I don't think so. For those who believe in G-D miracles are not an issue. For those who do not, the impossiblity of evolution IS an issue.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:57 pm |
      • David

        Belief in the existence of a god, or even Yahweh in particular, does not automatically lead to belief that said god behaved a certain way or performed certain miracles. You believe in those miracles based on the writings of unknown authors that you simply take for granted to be true. Just because you personally lack basic knowledge about the observed instances of speciation, or of ring species, or of gene flow, or of any number of other things does not mean that evolution is impossible.

        September 12, 2011 at 6:11 pm |
    • Felix

      Are u saying that the goat herders who also included various geographical and historical information that many people believed was false until they actually cross referenced it with archaeological logical finds and ancient texts to find that the information is correct just to improve the credibility of the book so that they could more easily slip in false information in it?

      September 12, 2011 at 6:00 pm |
      • David

        Felix – They told stories that took place in the area in which they lived. Today, people do the same thing, for instance, telling stories in comic books about Spider-Man. The fact that those stories take place in the New York does not validate those stories as true.

        September 12, 2011 at 6:05 pm |
  47. Felix

    Can evolution explain how life start on the Earth?

    September 12, 2011 at 5:54 pm |
    • Tooey

      not yet, and it doesn't claim to.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:59 pm |
    • David

      Go educate yourself on the 'God of the Gaps' and 'argumentum ad ignorantium' fallacies.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:17 pm |
    • VonDoom

      There are various theories. Unfortunately until we observe or can re-create this, we don't fully know. I'm a firm believer that life exists in many environments outside of our world and adapts to whatever that environment is. I believe it was transplanted or arrived here from somewhere else somehow. Not saying little green men did it or anything like that. Whatever that life was, flourished. If you look at what the Earth's environment has been like in past times, it is nothing like it is right now. Life has existed on Earth when this world was technically "alien" many times in the past. That in a way proves that life can exist outside of the environment we have right now. I honestly think that when we actually get out there and start to explore other planets we might be surprised to find out that life somehow exists in some of the most wild environments.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:20 pm |
    • Answer

      The only way is to actually build a working time machine, bring a camcorder or whatever and be there to bring back corroborative evidence.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:42 pm |
  48. Ernest

    It is great to always see how this world is filled with idiots on either side of the argument.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:54 pm |
  49. nathan

    So where did monkeys come from?

    September 12, 2011 at 5:54 pm |
    • VonDoom

      Bush Babies and lemurs. If you are going with the idea that humans descended from apes and monkey's unfortunately you've fallen into the biggest scam to discredit evolution. Nobody in evolution teaches or has taught that humans evolved from apes and/or monkeys; at least those not trying to discredit evolution. We and apes and monkeys share a common ancestor, nothing more. While discoveries like the one this original story points to get closer to discovering that common ancestor, it has yet to be fully uncovered.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:10 pm |
  50. comradezero

    Really CNN?! Bringing up a polarizing issue just to invite people to argue in your comments section is not news reporting. Are you guys trying to compete with Fox or 4Chan?

    September 12, 2011 at 5:53 pm |
  51. VonDoom

    As a Geography teacher I always tell my kids that for a long time people believed the Earth was flat and there are some even today that still believe this. They believed this because their religious leaders told them so and also told them that they would be punished both in this life and the next if they did anything against this. However, even though there is a vast amount of evidence and proof that the world is in fact a sphere, go out there and find out for yourself because it's not my place as a Geography teacher to tell you the Earth is round.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:53 pm |
    • EnergyBeing3

      Excellent post and I love how your lesson is that of DISCOVERY which is very healthy for a human's process of reality and reason.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:58 pm |
    • JB

      Kudos!

      September 12, 2011 at 6:00 pm |
  52. ahpiii

    A lot of people are saying "read" this and "read" that to understand evolution and scientific principles. Unfortunately, the common person (which makes up about 80% of the human race, and I'm being generous here) is lazy and somewhat ignorant. Asking them to read and understand abstract theories sounds like work. For many it's far easier to pretend to partially read an ancient storybook which they can have defined for them by another human, in whatever interpretation they choose. We're lazy, stupid, and scared: Tell me when I die it's going to get better (if I live the way you tell me to live) and I can make it though another day. THAT is why we will never advance as a species.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:53 pm |
    • ATK

      That may be why you are not advancing the rest of us are "reading"

      September 12, 2011 at 6:26 pm |
  53. thes33k3r

    Religion is a poison. So much ignorance is perpetuated under the ruse of religion.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:53 pm |
  54. EnergyBeing3

    We are all evolving every second of every day. Can you imagine the evolutionary shift our biology is now taking with all the new prescriptions that have come out in the last decade? Eventually, if we survive as a species, we will see our biology mesh with technology. We will become like cyborgs we see in Sci-Fi movies. Maybe not as crude but still, it will become a reality one day soon. Evolution is very real. Even religions, yes, Christianity has gone though it's changes and evolutions.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:52 pm |
  55. God in the sky=Alien in the sky

    Has anyone ever seen Ancien Aliens on the History channel? Do you think mother nature would create humans alone considering how unbalance and destructive we are?

    September 12, 2011 at 5:52 pm |
  56. stealthycat

    Never has evolution be proven fact – it is a theory, nothing more.

    Sorry all you people who are misled and think it is, evolution is your religion, nothing more, nothing less.

    BTW all the species that have went extinct over the past 100 years ........ why didn't any of them evolve and live on? hmmmmm ?

    September 12, 2011 at 5:51 pm |
    • Tooey

      gravity is a theory- nothing more.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:56 pm |
    • Ben

      This comment is the opposite of winning... try the search bar on your browser and type your last sentence. Don't be scared, but it might take some effoert to learn something new.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:56 pm |
    • Stephen Charchuk

      Its clear that you don't even know what a scientific theory.

      Here is a link to a site for creationist on what arguments to avoid using. Guess what? "Its only a theory" is one of the main ones to avoid.

      http://www.answersingenesis.org/get-answers/topic/arguments-we-dont-use

      September 12, 2011 at 5:57 pm |
    • Stephen Charchuk

      We are currently in the 6th mass extinction event which is primarily caused by us.......

      http://www.actionbioscience.org/newfrontiers/eldredge2.html

      September 12, 2011 at 6:00 pm |
    • VonDoom

      And where did you study evolution to come to the conclusion that it has never been proven? Obviously you slept through the part about whales. They walked on the land then returned back to the water. The fact that they have a pelvis is proof of this. You also missed the part where it's stated that those who don't adapt to change go extinct, not the one's that do or do not evolve.

      If humans are the top of the pyramid (as per created in God's image) when it comes to "intelligent design" or "creationism" or whatever, why is it my dog can see better than me, hear better than me and smell better than me? Rabbits have to eat their own poop to fully digest what they eat, it's because their fermentation chamber is at the end of their digestive tract. Where is the intelligence in this?

      September 12, 2011 at 6:04 pm |
  57. Justin

    If you were created by god, good for you. For those of us that are the product of an "accident" good for us. Fighting over something you believe is like arguing with an idiot for both sides. For me, I'd rather believe that we are a product of millions and millions of years of "Intelligent adaptations" Than be created by god and be a rough draft for a few thousand years. Why fight about it though? If you are right and believe it then that is all that matters, arguing it is a sign of insecurity to me. Believe what you want because you are not changing my mind. Yet I still respect your beliefs 🙂 I don't care if you believe we came from the moon. There is good lessons to be learned either way...

    September 12, 2011 at 5:51 pm |
    • Kevin

      Agreed.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:06 pm |
    • ATK

      If only the human race were more compassionate and understand instead of opinionated then perhaps we could all lean to live and love one another without the need to force our opinions upon one another.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:14 pm |
  58. Fred

    Point your head towards the sky if you want to know where we come from. The stars, including our very own sun (Sol) are all busy sowing the seeds of life deep within their cores. The iron in our blood, the gold around our necks (or on our finger for us married folks), even the carbon upon which our entire civiliation is based was forged in the heart of a star (or in the death blast of a massive star). Our evolution will take us to the point where we don't need make-believe deities to explain the universe around us one day; and although I will not be allive to see it, that will be a great day for mankind. Religion is the "easy way" to understand life; easy in the sense that when your child asks you "why is the sky blue?" Believers can easily say "because God made it blue." You don't need to know that the air we breath is composed of a lot of nitrogen which absorbs most of the colors of the visible light spectrum, except (you guessed it) the color blue. Or why does the wind blow? Where did the sun come from? And a million other questions believers explain away with a god. It takes work to study, observe, and discover the truth. And we are slowly moving closer to the truth; learning more and more with each passing generation. And one day will be able to get rid of the crutch of religion altogether and live out our full potential as sentient beings in this vast universe.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:51 pm |
    • Yep

      Sagan said it best: " We are all made of star stuff"

      September 12, 2011 at 5:52 pm |
  59. Be honest

    A God or creator is not an intelligent explanation for anything. If simple humans like us required a superior creator, and could not have evolved by natural processes alone, than a much more complex being like God would also need to have a superior creator (SuperGod?), and his creator would have needed one (UltraMegaGod?) and so on, to infinity. Creationism thus explains nothing. It just draws a line in the sand of history, past which which the believer no longer needs to think, and they call this line God. It's just an excuse to be intellectually lazy, basically.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:50 pm |
    • Fred

      I love it. Could not have said better myself.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:52 pm |
    • Believer

      Wrong. Once you accept that there is a G-D you can accept that you can't understand anything outside the existence that he created. Why do you think you can understand the essence of G-D. Objects in this world you would agree require something that created them at some point or another. That is not true for G-D.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:56 pm |
      • CK

        Believer, how would you know it's not true for God? Just because you can't comprehend it doesn't mean it's not true (much like Evolution). This is just your creationist logic drawn out: If something that exists needs a superior creator, and God exists, than God needs a creator, and so on. On the other hand, if you admit that a complex being like God does NOT need a creator, which you seem to be saying, than a less complex being like a single cell organism, or a human, obviously does not need a creator either , and you have shot your own argument to pieces. Your claim of "can't comprehend" is just the line in the line in the sand mentioned above, where you have decided to stop thinking. It's laziness masquerading as humility.

        September 12, 2011 at 6:06 pm |
  60. Mike

    Did we evolve, or were we created? There is some physical evidence that we may have evolved. Yet again, there are religious scripts and tales, passed down through the ages, in many different cultures, which indicate that we were created.
    I tend to believe we were created, but we have trivialized what this really means. The idea that neanderthals evolved to a point where they suddenly decided to make up "Garden of Eden" and "Adam & Eve" tales defies logic to me. It is much more likely that, whatever route we evolved or were created from, humans attained their learning, tales, and ability to develop into a highly functioning mammal, due to some form of outside intervention.
    It is a very real possibility that our Planet was terra-formed to support life, and man was introduced at some stage during the process by a considerably superior intelligence.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:49 pm |
    • Tom

      But where did the superior intelligence come from?

      September 12, 2011 at 5:51 pm |
  61. Matt

    Evolution is not only a scientific fact, but was a necessary process to prepare "human beings" that could withstand the harsh environments of the earth–gravity, disease, weather, etc., etc. However, that process, which took 100s of millions of years, does not mean God doesn't exist.

    It simply means that He used natural processes to prepare the earth for our inhabitation. So why Adam and Eve? Possibly to introduce the royal blood line that would eventually result in Christ, The Savior, and to bring the holy priesthood to earth.

    I don't see "science vs. religion". I see "science is religion" (and vice versa).

    September 12, 2011 at 5:49 pm |
  62. RichS

    Only the most stubborn and stupidest of people still refuse to accept Evolution as a matter of fact. The more you understand genetics and molecular biology, the more convincing it becomes. The argument that it still remains a theory is in the same context as gravity is still just a theory and Music is also just a theory; but who in their right mind would deny the existence of those things? There was a "motivational poster" going around which had some religious artifacts, and under it some biochemical instrumentation with the caption: "Religion, ... if you're too stupid to understand science."

    September 12, 2011 at 5:48 pm |
  63. BibleThumper69

    Evolution cant be right cause the Bible dont say it right. I aint no monkey cause how could there be monkeys now if I came from monkeys, besides, there aint no monkeys in the Bible either and I dont believe in monkeys. So called "monkeys" are actually little climbin demons sent from the devil and I didnt come from no demon. Oh, and Darwin was really a Christian.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:47 pm |
  64. ScaiacS

    Hey Religion! it happened. Get over it.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:46 pm |
  65. Austin

    First, humans evolved from apes, not monkeys. Secondly, the apes you see today are not the same apes that we have evolved from. They too have changed over the millions of years. Yes, I believe in evolution and I believe in a higher being but someone please explain to me how "everything" on this earth was created in 6 days....

    September 12, 2011 at 5:46 pm |
    • Ben

      Amen to that!

      September 12, 2011 at 5:47 pm |
  66. Smalltowner

    Perhaps God created Evolution.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:45 pm |
    • Stephen Charchuk

      Who created god?

      September 12, 2011 at 6:02 pm |
  67. Believer

    I love all this talk about the tremendous amount of "proof" for the "theory" of evolution. Yet nobody seems to say what that proof is. Seems like a dream world to me. If anything the missing links, and the absense of "proof" in the fossil records prove that evolution is a farce. But people keep believing what they want to believe and what they were taught – especially if it allows them to live a certain lifestyle.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:45 pm |
    • CK

      What do you mean nobody knows what the proof is? Science books are loaded with it. Study science, dummy, and you will know. Don't project your ignorance of evidence on everyone else, or expect them to put a college course worth of info into a message board post because you're too lazy to get a book and read it yourself.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:09 pm |
      • Believer

        Please give us a little hint of some of the proof – PLEASE... (I said Please...)

        September 13, 2011 at 4:35 pm |
  68. Tom

    I believe in evolution, but there are many "mysteries" that surround it such as why are the intermediate forms still missing? Say are fathers were home erectus. Where is the 90% erectus/10% sapiens, 80% erectus/20% sapiens? Get the picture. It is as if an erectus squatted and out popped a sapiens: where's the evolution?
    People who ACTUALLY believed in scientific method would not dismiss the possibility, or even likelihood, of a Creator.
    For example: why does virtually 100% of all humanity believe in a creator, or at least a creative force?
    As human as rituals, celebrations, wearing jewelry, art etc. is the belief in a Creator. It is one of the quintessential things that define us as human, and leaving room for a Creator's existence DOES follow the scientific method.
    Sorry Atheists, but those of you who are closed-minded about the possibility of a Creator are no better than a religious zealot that insists the world is 4000 years old.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:44 pm |
    • Andrew

      I suggest you read the missing link conception issue that this CNN article links to at the end. It will help clear up your confusion. It's not a failing of evolution you're looking at, it's a failing of your understanding of evolution.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:19 pm |
    • Hmmm

      Some "intermediate" forms have been found, ( but if you truly grasp evolution you will know all species, including humans are intermediates between some past species and some future one) . Many fossils are and always will be missing because of this process called decay, Tom. Go bury a chicken sandwich in your backyard. Dig it up in 20 years and see what's left. Then think about what millions of years do to animal remains are you will understand why we are lucky to have the loads of fossils that we do have. Then think about the fact that the total amount of earth's surface which has been excavated in search of fossils is a miniscule fraction of it's area. That should temper your demands for fossil evidence of everything that ever lived, I hope.

      As for why people believe in gods, evolutionary psychology is starting to answer that question, but you are missing the rather salient point that most of the world does NOT believe in your religion or concept of God, whichever one it is. If the holy book of one religion is true, than the other major religions are necessarily false, and by default most religious people must have faith in falsehoods. This simple deduction proves the unreliability of religious faith.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:20 pm |
  69. Germany

    Nobody really knows for sure. It's that simple. Everything is a guessing game. It's what you want it to be. Your religion. It's all about faith, whether you have faith in evolution, faith in natural selection, faith in astronomy, or faith in God. You can only choose one. As I see it, either God created mankind as we know it, or aliens put us here.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:44 pm |
  70. Andrew

    The Burgess Shale in British Columbia proves there were over 50 animal phyla (categories of animal) in existance 520-550 million years ago. They all appear in the fossil record at that time (take whatever view of that fact you wish). IN the world today we have only about 28 phyla. That reverses Darwin's theory of simple organisms branching out and evolving into various species we know today. It's in fact the opposite. There were more organisms at that time than there is today and we have narrowed down losing certain creatures that were not suitable as time marched on.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:44 pm |
    • CharlesD

      Your misunderstanding of evolution is profound.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:06 pm |
  71. evolutionist

    If you believe in God it doesn't mean that you have to be a christian. You can have both God and science in your belief.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:43 pm |
    • Germany

      Cop-out.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:47 pm |
  72. Matt

    This is like saying "Your thoughts on gravity" and then showing posts like
    "God made us this way. Gravity may be a force to you, but I'm not pulled down by anyone but god!"

    Guess what: you don't have an opinion on evolution. You can ignore whatever evidence you want, but then your opinion is invalid.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:42 pm |
  73. Deception9000

    I'm frightened to not believe in a deity. It mustn't be too different from what it was like to live when there were catholic inquisitions in Europe. I can't share my beliefs because of a fear of ostracism professionally or socially. The thought that religious folk can't themselves deny a deity is horrible. They live in their ancestor's trap of family socialization within local history. They can't deny what their parents and their parents before them believed. It's no different than believing the worlds is flat, etc. It would be so much better if everyone could just forget religion. To make it just a postmark in history. It's funny to me to hear that the dark ages in past tense. Currently, we still are in the dark ages.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:42 pm |
  74. mommaearth

    Mankind has and continues to evolve just like many species,any slopeheaded rockchucker can see that.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:42 pm |
  75. Angel G.

    Evolution has waaaaaay too many theories. It's a religion in itself. I think it's actually more crazy to believe in evolution than

    to believe in God. (This is dated 2.8 billion years ago, that was dated 40 billion years ago. Com'on seriously? How accurate

    are these tests anyway? So in conclusion, in my opinion you reeeeally have to have more faith to believe that nonsense.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:42 pm |
    • Tooey

      please don't confuse blind faith with acceptance of scientific fact.faith requires no fact, no proof, no evidence, yet people with faith make an extraordinary claim. evolution is, to many people, and extraordinary claim. this claim is backed up by overwhelming evidence accrued from several independent fields of study. it does not prove anything, but rather suggests a very high probability of occurrence.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:50 pm |
      • Angel G.

        Actually these "tests" they use to prove their theories are very bogus. I suggest you look into it. But many sheep follow

        these claims as fact. Very sad.. Hence, my statement that you need MORE faith to believe in such evolution fairytales.

        September 12, 2011 at 6:15 pm |
    • JB

      Have you ever even looked at a high school science book? I mean, apart from looking at it before you toss it on the burning pile, that is...

      September 12, 2011 at 5:58 pm |
      • Angel G.

        Try doing some research in the theories you believe. Find out what they use to get their dates and analysis. Believe me, you will be shocked. It's all theoretical.

        September 12, 2011 at 6:19 pm |
  76. Nelson

    Something that I find very interesting is that everyone has divided science and faith. As a Christian, my faith does not seperate me from science – it draws me closer to it! God's Creation reveals to me the believer His awesome power and love for all of us. God created each of us for a purpose – man, by design, has within him a desire to know his purpose. This is something that evolution cannot reveal to us. Also, evolution cannot define the origins of love (not lust), humility, self-control, and self-sacrfice. Evolution has no theory for characteristics like these that run contrary to its fundamental principles. To define the structured origins of "life" or its complexities is impossible through evolution. To think that all that is in existance around us is a result of random chance is irresponsible and destructive – no society can thrive on that theory. Also, it is amazing to see how quickly culture / society decays the more it moves away from a belief in a Creator. Your unwillingness to believe in Him will not make Him eventually "go away". Understand this...my sons may one day reject me – even deny my existance, but I will still be their father and love them unconditionally...my existance cannot be wished or proved away.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:41 pm |
    • JB

      Blah, blah, blah...you sound like every religious fool I've ever heard. Grow up, stop believing in magic, mysticism, and fairy tales.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:44 pm |
  77. Guest

    Dear Deluded Believers in Supernatural Beings,
    Please do not pollute this blog with your immature ramblings about your ever present daddy for adults. As mentioned above, the 'Belief' blog is in place for you to share your silly views with others of your ignorant ilk.
    Thank you!

    September 12, 2011 at 5:41 pm |
  78. dave

    Why does everyone try to disprove evolution, it's much more difficult to prove the existence of God.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:40 pm |
    • Tooey

      emphasis on much

      September 12, 2011 at 5:44 pm |
    • CharlesD

      It is impossible, in fact. Hence the need for faith.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:08 pm |
  79. Brian

    When I look at religious people I get the impression that evolution is running backwards.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:40 pm |
  80. Jeff

    Look Christians, I spent 17 years of my life as a hard core, to the bone, bible studying, Jesus loving Christian. I studied the bible more than you can possibly imagine, and yes I asked the Holy Spirit to guide me threw it all. I once believed hook, line, and sinker that Mr. Ken Ham's 6000 year earth was correct, and all Evolution scientists were evil people driven by Satan to undermine Christianity. One day it dawned on me, if almost all the people, dinosaurs, animals, and birds died and were buried by the great flood in mass amounts of different kinds of sediment, then why do we not find people and all their civilizations, tools and so-forth, and modern day animals, elk, cows, goats... mixed in with those dinosaurs in those same flood layers? Start there and do your research on the Internet. No, don't just got to Ken Ham's website and see his lousy interpretation of why we find none of this, but search high and low to find your answers. After two years of researching scientific evidence and comparing it to YEC's data, I can no longer believe the ridiculousness of a young earth. What a massive wake up call I got, when I actually studied the data and not just spouted off like most of the Christians on this topic.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:40 pm |
    • Answer

      Jeff,

      Congrats. People in ignorance will never see the facts that a major flood of that potential has to have limits.
      Buried evidence would indeed have to remain in the places they were last. It isn't ignorable.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:50 pm |
    • Andrew

      You really make me ashamed of my name. Seriously, a flood? Next you're going to tell me that half lives decay exponentially. As it happens, if half lives were as fast as young earth creationists would need them to be, the earth really should be a molten piece of rock through and through. You're talking about quite a lot of energy released over remarkably short amounts of time. But then, why should physics or geology or biology ever get in the way of a good creation story, right?

      September 12, 2011 at 7:05 pm |
  81. ATK

    Creation means we were given this life as a gift. Evolution means we earned it, either way life is still precious.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:39 pm |
    • Richard Klingler

      I love that statement

      September 12, 2011 at 8:24 pm |
  82. The Voice of Reason

    I am always saddened by the lack of intellect that otherwise intelligent people demonstrate in the face of religion. The two are disparate branches of thinking, one based on logic and reason, the other on hope and faith. They can clearly co-exist in modern times, unless you are some fundamentalist (Islam, Christian, whatever).

    Evolution is as close to an absolute law as a thing can be, moreover, recent well done and clearly accurate studies show that early man and Neanderthals swapped DNA (as in mated). God may have created the universe, but he sure as hell doesn't control the acts of individuals. Isn't he a little busy for such micromanagement?

    September 12, 2011 at 5:39 pm |
  83. Ben

    I'm sure this has been covered and talked about a hundred times today, but I'm too lazy to read(and I'm not ashamed to admit that). Here's what I believe, being more of an agnostic and a science supporter:
    The Earth is 4.7ish billion years old. Fact. We know this because we've done the mathmatic calculations. The universe is much older. Fact. We have run models based on those of Earth's age. So why is it that no one can wrap their mind around the fact that God, in any religious shape/form/whatever could have created everything it over time? We can not fathom just how infinitely small and insignificant we are in the universe. We as humans have to simplify it to have it make sense to us. So for those of us who believe in God AND Science (Scary I know) here's a great middle ground...remember the Big Bang? Something had to start it right? It didnt just "happen", I believe God started it...then let things happen as they would. No need to interfere with something when you KNOW whats going to happen right? And for those who are going to assault me for having this opinion, here's another present: You are completely ignorant to believe we are the only planet in the universe that supports life...if you do believe that, then God help you. There's no reason to go back and forth about this, life's too short. Instead, go out side, play catch with your kids, read a book, and for God's sake, stop worrying about what everyone else thinks. All that matters is what you believe. It doesn't matter what you have faith in, just that you have Faith.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:39 pm |
    • Ben

      And to add to this, for which I strayed from the evolution topic, why can't God have shaped our evolution from a single cell to who we are today? If youre going to argue about evolution and God and all that, please know what youre talking about before you speak. "Better to be thought a fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt"

      September 12, 2011 at 5:44 pm |
      • Chach

        It's cool to believe that. I'm somewhere near what you're talking about. BUT! This means that the Bible and other religious texts are complete bunk. And the whole "G*d is good", Je$us is G*d, but is also the son of G*d, Noah's Ark, Adam & Eve......etc. It's all bunk. At best it's allegorical fiction, at worst it's just mythological dogmatic fear mongering. G*d certainly didn't write, speak or any way author the words of those self-contadictory mish-mashed texts. So then if G*d did "create" the universe, then what does G*d "DO" with it? If anything. If G*d simply was a ball of infinitely dense hot mass that existied only of itself, then it's likely to have contained everything that would have eventually become the entire universe. Matter, Gravity, Engergy, Light, Life and even Consiousness. It must have known what it would become by its own action of creating itself from itself. And in doing so consiously and ultimately manifested itself into what we are. We are in its image, because we are OF IT. We are parts of the universe, the universe is G*d, therefore we are each part of G*d. G*d is no longer singular, G*d is all. But G*d is now limited to the it put upon itself at the point it created the universe. It is on auto pilot. G*d must have known or at least imagined or hoped that it would ulitmately lead to life, thought, curiosity, discovery, knowledge, trial, error, good, evil, dark and light. With the hope that its creation would eventually discover itself by becoming intelligent and curious and start asking how we came to be. The best way to do that is through science that asks questions about the nature of our surroundings and tests its theories. In essence, the closer we come to understanding the nature of physics, matter, life, and all that goes along with, the closer we get to understanding G*d and ultimately ourselves. If the Universe is G*d, then Science is the ultimate religion.

        September 12, 2011 at 8:17 pm |
  84. blake

    There is significant evidence for evolution within a species. There is little or no evidence of evidence at a higher level. Yet the scientific community and the media continue to teach macro evolution as a fact rather than a weak theory filled with problems and unanswered questons, and to belittle those who disagree.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:39 pm |
    • CharlesD

      That teach that because macro evolution is a demonstrable fact. The evidence for speciation through random mutation is overwhelming and eminently observable.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:11 pm |
  85. Mrbuzzworthy

    Where did the dinosaurs come from?

    September 12, 2011 at 5:38 pm |
    • palintwit

      Aliens.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:40 pm |
  86. ATK

    This is the how, not the why.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:38 pm |
  87. JB

    Religion is for weak minded people. FACT.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:37 pm |
    • The Voice of Reason

      Wrong JB, religion is for scared people that cannot conceive of what comes after they die without a set of beliefs that are constructed by those who have profited somehow or another for thousands of years by controlling the beliefs of others.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:43 pm |
  88. d

    It is claimed that religion is destructive and brainwashing. Nevertheless, the same can be said for "indoctrinating" young people with the false teachings of evolution, which is a religion that makes a god out of scientists. The scientists want people to worship their studies as though their studies were facts. Furthemore, they expect for the world to "bow down" at their scientific feet as though they were deities (or gods) with infinite wisdom and knowledge at their disposal. Nevertheless, I think not. Their studies are theories, and erroneous theories at that, just like they claim that Christians cannot prove that the Bible is true. Furthermore, the only things they utilize in their studies are empirical observation, but they themselves must admit that there are things that they cannot observe through any type of empirical observation, and therefore those things are unexplainable. In addition, they did not empirically observe what happened billions and billions of years ago so evolution CANNOT ever be claimed to be a fact. Better yet, I would definitely never trust scientists who have an agenda to push anyway that helps them simply to make MONEY. Comments are made about preachers who just want money, but the same thing can be said about many of these scientists who distort their findings to support their theory and make more money. Of course, there are corrupt religious leaders simply bent on making money, but if the Bible was truly preached as it should be they wouldn't be as popular as they are now, and they definitely wouldn't be "milking" people out of their money, but the world would be a better place.
    Nevertheless, what makes the evolutionary scientists believe that their studies are the only studies worth acknowledging? Creation scientists do studies, too. What makes evolutionary scientists make such bogus claims as evolution is fact, and that they alone have the truth in regards to origins, when they may simply have been brainwashed (just like it is claimed that religionists are brainwashed) by scientists who were themselves brainwashed by still others going back to the beginnings of the propagation of this theory of evolution? I, for one, will not buy into this false religion, and I will not bow down to scientists who essentially want the world to worship their studies as though their studies are a new bible. It seems better to bow down to Jesus Christ, God in human flesh, One whose "experiential study" on the cross proved that God did create us in His own image, and when we fell into sin He was willing to do whatever it would take to bring us back to Him, even giving up His own Son in our place. He died for you evolutionary teacher and/or believer, and you may mock it, fight against it, and even ridicule it, but you know that in the deepest pits of your heart its true. I pray you give your life to Jesus Christ right now.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:37 pm |
    • SarcasmIncarnate

      sterilize yourself ASAP.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:38 pm |
      • palintwit

        *** LIKE ***

        September 12, 2011 at 5:41 pm |
    • JB

      "Better yet, I would definitely never trust scientists who have an agenda to push anyway that helps them simply to make MONEY." I can say the exact same thing about any and all religions.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:41 pm |
    • Observer

      "erroneous theories at that, just like they claim that Christians cannot prove that the Bible is true"

      Go ahead and prove that serpents understand language and talk; men can live in whales; unicorns exist; bushes burn without decomposition; men live to 600 years and then build boats large enough to hold hundreds of thousands of animals and months of food,etc.

      This should be good.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:43 pm |
    • Andrew

      I don't believe you understand what the word "empirical" really entails. By your standard, anyone born after WWII couldn't say the war even happened. What we have for evolution is a fairly complete picture spread across a wealth of disciplines, all to give more or less the same answer. Why on earth would morphology match genetics match paleontology without evolution?

      You have to admit, if evolution is wrong, then your god must have really, REALLY wanted to trick us. It'd be easy to conceive of a world where evolution is wrong, or where evolution could be overturned by an infinite number of species which "don't quite fit", but we have yet to ever find a single one.

      But, it's this line I really care about.
      "Better yet, I would definitely never trust scientists who have an agenda to push anyway that helps them simply to make MONEY."
      Scientists have an agenda to prove what we knew to be before wrong. Always. That's where the money lies. For example, in 2008 we awarded the Nobel Prize to three japanese physicists who many decades before postulated the then absurd notion that to explain the phenomenon known as "charge-parity violation", we needed to propose three new extra quarks at a time when we had only found three. People at the time felt it looked nice mathematically, but no one took it seriously.

      Time went on, and we showed that yes, indeed, there really ARE three generations of quarks (six quarks total), and by 2008 they got the Nobel Prize for showing everyone that we were wrong, and they were right.

      I mean, even Einstein's only prize was for his explanation of the photoelectric effect, because our classical mechanics picture was clearly insufficient. People get famous in science not by showing what we already believe to be right, but by showing that what we believed wasn't right, and that they have better explanations.

      If evolution was really as bunk as you'd seem to believe, a scientist stands to make a fortune, and earn respect and admiration forever, simply by showing that to be true. Money and grants favors new science that challenges our existing notions, not by simply stating over and over again that "we were right". "We were right" is boring, it doesn't give us much new. "We are wrong, and X is right" is where science gets its momentum. Obviously, you have never studied science well enough to understand that.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:01 pm |
  89. Tony

    Did anyone watch the cowboys play last night?

    September 12, 2011 at 5:36 pm |
    • SarcasmIncarnate

      yeah, YOU SUCK TONY

      September 12, 2011 at 5:41 pm |
    • The Voice of Reason

      As a citizen of Texas, all I can say is that the Cowboys suck and probably always will unless God intervenes. LOL

      September 12, 2011 at 5:46 pm |
  90. bachmanntwit

    FACT: Michele Bachmann's husband, Marcus Bachmann, is as queer as a three dollar bill. Apparently he couldn't pray away his own gay.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:36 pm |
    • The Voice of Reason

      You sound a little jealous big fella. haha

      So Bachmann's a zealot that can't get elected - Obama is killing this country and my dog would be a far better president. At least my dog would be happy licking herself and not picking everyone's pockets to fulfill some socialist redistribution agenda.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:49 pm |
  91. Chach

    Denying the "theory" of evolutions is like denying the "theory" that the Sun and all of the other stars in the universe are actually giant balls of hydrogen being coverted to helium (generally speaking). No one has ever been to the Sun to vefiry this process, but it's generally accepted that fusion is part of the process that makes life on this planet possible. So denying the theory is denying science. Therefore, if you deny science, then put your money where your mouth is and stay away from everything in the world and life that "science" and "theory" has made easier for you to live. But you will be giving up a LOT of stuff, just FYI.

    Abandon all: Math, Medicine, Doctors, Automobiles, Antibiotics, Vaccines, Boats, Airplanes, Microwave ovens, Toilets, Computers, Television, Radio, Internet......you get the idea...... Basically, go live in a cave and pray for that everything turns out alright.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:36 pm |
    • SarcasmIncarnate

      no, god definitely gave us the microwave. he loves easy mac!

      September 12, 2011 at 5:40 pm |
      • Chach

        Mmmm. Cheese. Homer is god.

        September 12, 2011 at 8:31 pm |
  92. mojito

    Evolution is fact. Humans developed by accident. That means humans were not "created" by some supreme being. There is no God. There is no soul. No spirits. No after-life. No heaven or hell. No reincarnation. No meaning of life. No value of life. No sanctity of life. No fate. Nothing is ever "meant to be". You are just an accident.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:36 pm |
  93. chancygardener

    Creationism and evolution go hand in hand. Bible says we were formed of clay by God, evolution says we were formed of clay by the hand of nature – and nature IS the hand of God.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:35 pm |
  94. bay at fair

    I like turtles

    September 12, 2011 at 5:34 pm |
    • palintwit

      We like horse droppings here in the Palin household. FRESH horse droppings. Still warm.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:38 pm |
  95. atheismisthetruth

    Even as a story evolution is better than creationism.

    With the creation story, two spoiled brats (Adam and Eve) had everything handed to them, yet they could not obey the one rule given to them by their heavenly father. Albeit that rule was to refrain from seeking knowledge. That is a weird rule for a father to give his children.

    In the evolution story, humans fought their way out of incivility by adapting and becoming better and stronger. They developed tools to make their lives more abundant, then language allowed them to communicate in more meaningful ways and pass on knowledge that they gained. With knowledge came abstract thought leading to art and love.

    What a beautiful story, and simple explanation to a complex situation. Oh and it happens to be verifiable by evidence and in no way benefits from manipulating people’s emotions like the creation story.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:34 pm |
  96. Andres

    Scientist and evolucionist (in this particular Field) made assumptions that can't be proven. it's like playing a very hard Sudoku, they filled the gaps with scientific facts which no body can argue, but other voids are very difficult to proove and lack support and are based on assumptions. We haven't seen everything on Evolution just yet, as science progresses we will have a better understanding on how things work, at the end there will be space for people like me that believe that the Bible is true, but you can't have the Bible saying things that is not saying, and visceversa with Science. I believe God is the creator of everything you see, Time, Matter, space, electromagmentic force, gravitational force, Nuclear force weak and strong, how this elements combine to produce what we see today, I was hoping science could give us more answers.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:34 pm |
    • Andrew

      We haven't seen everything on quantum field theory, yet evidently you accept that considering you believe in the strong and weak forces. We haven't seen everything regarding general relativity, yet you accept gravity. But for some reason you require to have "seen everything" in evolution to accept that as fact? Methinks you might be applying a double standard here.

      Evolution is as supported a scientific theory as general relativity. In fact, I'd tend to argue it's moreso, because while evolution has gaps, it has no fundamental contradictions. We have, after all, never found a rabbit in the Cambrian, or an animal that shares just as much DNA with pigs as it does with turtles, but less similarity than, say, a dog. These things would contradict our very foundational grasp of evolution.

      As far as physics is concerned, however, general relativity has a glaring flaw. It entirely fails to describe what goes on in a black hole, when you apply the large scale general relativity to really small scales. These provide some very, very large problems in physics, challenging our very foundational grasp of the universe, and yet the theories, over the scale they're applied to, tend to work so well that it's difficult to deny.

      In this vain, evolution works very well to explain the diversity of life WITHOUT running into any major fundamental contradictions with itself. Certainly nothing on the scale of GR's fundamental breakdown at small scales. Yet for some reason you require more evidence for evolution, a science about as firmly established as you can get, but able to easily believe in the weak force?

      That's surprising to me. You accept the existence then of the W and Z bosons, but you likely have no idea how we search for them in particle detectors. But when confronted with transitional fossils, I'd imagine you'd argue "it's not enough" as though your authority for determining the validity of evolution is more substantial than your ability for determining the validity of quantum field theory.

      I really hope you notice the double standard you're applying to science.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:43 pm |
    • Answer

      Andres,

      Most people talk out of their ass when they should know better. Do you presume too much? Well never mind you do.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:55 pm |
  97. JoeSeattle

    People of faith play into the hands of their enemies when they maintain that what is written in the Bible is incompatible with the theory of evolution. The Bible does not, could not address process ~3000+ years ago when Genesis was written. The creation story in the Bible is remarkable alegorical to our understanding of evolution, actually, but frankly even that is beside the point, since the Genesis story isn't really intended to address such details but more mankind's place in the world. But guess what? There are just as many small-brained Christians as non-believers, so you get a mix of pointless strife just like everywhere else.

    The one thing about mankind is that we alone of all species on Earth have the ability to choose a purpose in life. The real functional difference differentiating people of faiths teaching moral discipline is that they select any primary objective in life other than sex. When you think about it, those who do select sex as a primary objective may as well just be animals, since choosing sex as the meaning of life or simply having that be the case through lack of ability to choose essentially amount to the same. And if one does choose sex as the meaning of one's existence, how do you know you've really made any choice at all? In fact, you may think you had a choice, but you may actually be only an ordinary animal.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:34 pm |
  98. Devout Christian

    By my name, you can see my stance on God. But I also understand the Bible from an educated point of view. The story in Genesis that God spoke the universe into existence is real. But the interpretation is flawed. You have to understand that Jewish poets (who wrote Genesis from oral traditions) used days as a metering device. On this day that happened, on that day this happen, etc... But any scientist will tell you they don't know where the singularity came from. Is it a stretch to say it came from God? I don't think so. To say that God used evolution to create man, doesn't take away from the fact that God created us all. Where Christians get hung up is believing the Bible is the inerrant word of God. It is simply man's interpretation of God's word. When you hang your entire argument on the fact the Bible is literal, you get into trouble. Because if you believe that, you have to believe that women should speak in church (per the apostle Paul). It's the same story, just told in a different way.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:34 pm |
  99. Marty Luther

    Only an idiot would believe that there is an eternal being who suddenly decided to bring all things into existence. Nothing can be eternal, that is impossible. I choose to believe that there was this big ball of stuff that is essentially eternal, then it blew up,and things evolved, and, uh.... Hey wait.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:33 pm |
  100. qedpro

    Gravity is a fact. The theory of gravity – called General Relativity – explains why gravity happens. that it happens is a fact. If the theory were found to be wrong, we still have to explain the fact that when we jump off a building we go splat every time. We still have to explain the fact of gravity.

    Evolution is a fact. The theory of evolution often called Natural Selection or Descent by modification explains why evolution happens. That it happens is a fact. If we were to find that Natural Selection was not the driving force behind evolution we still need to explain the fact that organism have evolved. We still have to explain the Speciation that we have witnessed in the last 150 years. We still have to explain the fact of evolution.

    The people that deny evolution cannot even pass a test on what evolution is. Their willful ignorance is a disgrace to humanity.

    September 12, 2011 at 5:33 pm |
    • The Voice of Reason

      I hate to disagree with such an eloquent post, but I will accept that evolution is a law, or at least as close as you can get.

      Don't get me started on gravity though - while we observe an effect that we call gravity, no reputable scientist can explain why gravity actually exists, and don't start about unseen gravitons; that sounds too much like religion for such an unenlightened species as man.

      September 12, 2011 at 5:54 pm |
    • ScottieB

      You can PROVE gravity. Just jump off of a tall building and become the proof.

      You can't PROVE something you weren't there to witness. You have to take a leap of faith.

      My faith is in something OTHER THAN evolution.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:06 pm |
      • Stephen Charchuk

        Where's your proof for god? That is what is called blind faith, unlike normal faith that is actually based on real experience. So, all of history before you were born doesn't exist since you weren't there to experience it? That is somewhat of an arrogant belief. It doesn't exist unless you personally experience it.

        September 12, 2011 at 6:19 pm |
      • Cop man

        Criminal justice proves things that people weren't there to witness all the time. It's called material evidence. Science works is a similar way. if you dismiss evolution based on no eye witnesses, you had better let most of all the criminals out of prison too, or be a hypocrite.

        But anyway, there are eyewitnesses to evolution all the time. Where do you think vaccines for new strains of the flu come from? Viruses mutate and evolve all the time, and this is observed in the lab. Unless you think God is making new versions of all the viruses all the time, to try and wipe us out...

        September 12, 2011 at 6:26 pm |
      • BeamMeUpScotty

        You can PROVE something for which you were not witness to. It's called using LOGIC and EVIDENCE.

        However, you cannot prove something which has no LOGICAL BASIS for it.

        WTF is this thingy you label "God"?

        If you cannot LOGICALLY answer this question, then your "God" does not exist!

        How can it when you don't even know what it is you are claiming to exist! You have no LOGICAL THOUGHT about what this thingy you label "God" is! It's all non-sense! Hence, no such thingy exists as you claim.

        September 12, 2011 at 6:27 pm |
      • Gekaap

        "You can't PROVE something you weren't there to witness. You have to take a leap of faith."

        What a senseless thing to say. According to you, nothing can be proven unless it has been witnessed first hand. It's either blind faith or first hand accounts. I guess you consider it nothing but a leap of faith to believe that George Washington was our first President. Or that WWII resulted in tens of millions of deaths. Or that the Greeks defeated the Persians at Thermopolye. Or that the French Revolution occurred. Or that people ever went to the moon. They must all be leaps of faith to you, since you weren't there to witness them.

        September 12, 2011 at 6:29 pm |
    • K2T

      The so called Speciation , is the result of deterioration of DNA. FACT that It is an uncorrected error. This is the only fact that DNA can prove. Which DNA does prove.

      Some call this evolution others call it the effect of a dying world do to sin.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:24 pm |
      • BeamMeUpScotty

        Except DNA mutation and natural selection leads to MORE PERFECT species for survival!

        The SIN concept like that of ORIGINAL SIN from Gensis, says species become LESS PERFECT.

        For example, Adam and Eve were IMMORTAL beings before ORIGINAL SIN. After ORIGINAL SIN, life expectancy became MORTAL and descreased.

        However, EVOLUTION leads to INCREASING LIFE EXPECTANCY ... all naturally without the need to pray and worship some sky-daddy!

        September 12, 2011 at 6:33 pm |
      • K2T

        To BeamMeUpScotty:

        Once again your evolutionary belief system is kicking in. Evolution itself acknowledges that the environment selects from the existing variations the more suitable genes. This means there is no direction involved. MORE PERFECT requires a direction. So once again you fail at science and pass in your faith in evolution.
        DNA has a robust correction mechanism, correction requires a known direction. This means correction failures can only be viewed as an error. Errors are LESS than perfect.

        Please stick with the facts of science not your belief in evolution.

        September 13, 2011 at 11:42 am |
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