Your thoughts on evolution
Researchers found hand bones of an adult female Australopithecus sediba in Malapa, South Africa.
September 12th, 2011
12:56 PM ET

Your thoughts on evolution

We knew our story on a possible human ancestor called Australopithecus sediba would be controversial, but never expected more than 1,900 comments to come in.

The post generated some pretty intense discussions involving readers who do not believe these new findings - or any evidence of human evolution, for that matter - because of their religious beliefs.

blake

Maybe your ancestor, not mine. I was created in the image of God, not evolved from from some lifeless goo over billions of years. The accident of time and chance. I don't have enough faith to believe those kind of fantastical fairy tales.

Religious sentiments such as this received a lot of backlash from readers such as gary, who writes:

Evolution is fact. Deities and demons are pretend. Bible is folklore, myth, superstition and legend.

There's also a large contingent of readers who don't see a contradiction between accepting the facts of science and having religious faith. Judas Priest writes:

Excuse me, but why does believing in god mean denying the wonders of creation that you can see and touch and evaluate? How does accepting that the world is billions of years old, and the universe billions of years older still, deny god? How does observing that things change over time refute god in any way? Why must god, and god's creation, be small enough to be encompassed by your tiny little mind and your tiny little book?

The hundreds of comments that formed these discussions annoyed readers like Pav, who thinks people with religious reasons for denying evolution should take their beliefs elsewhere.

Mathematicians don't have to justify the Pythagorean theorem every time they apply it to a new proof, and scientists don't need to justify evolution every time they talk about a new fossil. So, stop it!

Of course, not everyone sees it this way - earth2loons feels that evolution is a lot more controversial than the Pythagorean theorem, writing:

"...when you must eliminate the possibility of a creator from your interpretation of the data because of your own agnostic or atheistic biases, you will see what you want and need to see."

It's obvious that a lot of people have very passionate views on this topic but, this being a science blog, we are going to report with the assumption that the prevailing, tested theory with the most rigorous evidence - evolution - is true. And CNN has a Belief Blog that fosters conversations about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives.

And there's a lot of misunderstanding about evolution; it's really not as clear cut as you might think. Reader John Hanson writes:

There is always controversy surrounding the "discovery" of fossils that are supposed to bridge apes to humans because they're always plagued by assumptions made by paleontologists. They touted "Peking Man" as the "link" in the fossil chain proving evolution, then came to discover bones of homo sapiens in the same pit. There are too many assumptions and too little PROOF.

The truth is that there is no simple chain of ancestry with a "missing link" that scientists are trying to find. When we talk about the lineage of Homo sapiens, we acknowledge that there were a whole bunch of ancient relatives of various anatomical forms, some of which are more closely related to us than others. Check out this piece from Science 2.0 on the "missing link fallacy" to learn more about the complexity of tracing the evolution of our species.

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Filed under: Human ancestors • On Earth
soundoff (3,534 Responses)
  1. John

    When I look at the complexity and beauty of the world around me, and the amazing way my own body works, I have to believe that there is a wise, and powerful creator. He might have used the processes of evolution, but he was the ultimate source of what we see. It couldn't have just happened. I think the universal sense of morality is also evidence of a creator. To people with an open mind, the existence of a creator is obvious. But if a person doesn't want to be held accountable to a creator, the theory of evolution helps them rationalize away his existence.

    September 12, 2011 at 7:18 pm |
    • Randy S

      I'm sorry, but 'universal sense of morality'? What planet do you live on? Do you read the news?

      September 12, 2011 at 7:22 pm |
      • John

        Yes. In fact, the stories that make the news help prove my point. There is a similar sense of outrage over things like murder, government corruption, injustice, rape, etc. These are the things people report on because all humans find them reprehensible.

        September 12, 2011 at 7:27 pm |
      • Randell

        Universal morality does exist. Read between the lines in the news. Its there but mostly the morality that he speaks of isnt as narrow as your applying it to.

        September 12, 2011 at 7:30 pm |
      • Randy S

        Deviants in any given society weren't my point. What matters is that not all cultures on our lovely blue planet have the same moral belief system that is prevalent in the good ole USA. What makes them wrong and us right? Because we have the biggest stick?

        September 12, 2011 at 7:33 pm |
      • Randell

        Good point Randy but isnt that one of the by products of this discussion also. Who has the biggest stick, ie "more PROOF" I hate that word by the way. We are not right becuase we tell eveyone that they are wrong, the U.S. is right becuase we don't tell our citizens what to beleive. Our basic human rights I think are excluded from this post since I am sure we all agree on being free in all of our splendid ways.

        September 12, 2011 at 7:41 pm |
      • Randy S

        Okay, we're getting way off topic here. But I have one final question for Randell. You really believe that we have the right to impose our belief system on others because we're free to do so? Or did I misunderstand that?

        September 12, 2011 at 7:49 pm |
      • Randell

        Impose or try to convince? I often hear people who want to argue evolution over creation that we bible thumpin loons are trying to impose, and indeed the church has done that in the past. But more to the point he who has the bigest stick does tend to make the rules. Right now people are leening evolution and it is imposed on our kids in school. When I went to High School they taught both but didnt tell the kids to think either way. Now they don't teach creationism even as a footnote in a text book. So right now the EVO's have the biggest stick.

        September 12, 2011 at 7:56 pm |
      • Randell

        Oh sorry that was a bit of a long answer. Yes you misunderstood if you thought I would imply that we should make people through force, believe in one or the other.

        September 12, 2011 at 7:59 pm |
      • Randy S

        Personally, I'm not an EVO or a Thumper. I try to judge the evidence and make decisions based on this evidence. I have a Catholic background, and we were taught not to take the Bible too literally. Today, I am perfectly willing to accept that there could be a supreme power in the Universe that directs and controls the evolution of everything. What I have evolved beyond is a belief in the overly simplistic, outdated concept of God as conceived by morally bankrupt states and religions desperate to control the masses under their thumbs in centuries gone by. I think it goes beyond conceit to think that there is a God out there who gives a damn what we do on a day to day basis. If it makes people feel warm and fuzzy to believe there is, good for you. I choose not to be a sheep.

        September 12, 2011 at 8:18 pm |
    • Pastafarian

      I'm sorry, but just because the beauty and complexity of life impresses you doesn't mean it was created by some supreme being. It only means that you appreciate the complexity of life. I just don't see how you make that giant blind unsubstantiated leap of faith.

      September 12, 2011 at 7:38 pm |
      • John

        To me, it takes a larger "giant blind unsubstantiated leap of faith" to think that the beauty, order, complexity, and interdependence of life on this planet is the result of some random chance over billions of years. Look at your own body, for example. Do you really believe you just evolved by chance. There had to be an intelligent designer.

        September 12, 2011 at 9:04 pm |
  2. Lardeau

    Nor do I buy that about we being the descendants of apes. I'm more to the Adam And Eve scenario. The Bible says God create Man. ( Pretty close to the form to-day ).

    September 12, 2011 at 7:16 pm |
    • Randell

      God created us in his image is so over stated but not understood. He created our souls in his image, weightless, formless and eternal. Our bodies are the way they are for the same reasons bubble are round.

      September 12, 2011 at 7:34 pm |
      • Pastafarian

        Maybe the simple act of copy/paste can help educate some of you who seem a bit confused by the use of the word theory. In your world, theory is usually defined as an abstract thought or unproved assumption.

        In science, a theory is a mathematical or logical explanation, or a testable model of the manner of interaction of a set of natural phenomena, capable of predicting future occurrences or observations of the same kind, and capable of being tested through experiment or otherwise falsified through empirical observation. It follows from this that for scientists “theory” and “fact” do not necessarily stand in opposition. For example, it is a fact that an apple dropped on earth has been observed to fall towards the center of the planet, and the theories commonly used to describe and explain this behavior are Newton’s theory of universal gravitation and general relativity.

        The defining characteristic of a scientific theory is that it makes falsifiable or testable predictions about things not yet observed. The relevance, and specificity of those predictions determine how (potentially) useful the theory is. A would-be theory which makes no predictions which can be observed is not a useful theory. Predictions which are not sufficiently specific to be tested are similarly not useful. In both cases, the term ‘theory’ is inapplicable.

        In practice a body of descriptions of knowledge is usually only called a theory once it has a minimum empirical basis. That is, it:
        ■ is consistent with pre-existing theory to the extent that the pre-existing theory was experimentally verified, though it will often show pre-existing theory to be wrong in an exact sense, and
        ■ is supported by many strands of evidence rather than a single foundation, ensuring that it is probably a good approximation, if not totally correct.

        Additionally, a theory is generally only taken seriously if it:

        ■ is tentative, correctable and dynamic, in allowing for changes to be made as new data is discovered, rather than asserting certainty, and

        ■ is the most parsimonious explanation, sparing in proposed entities or explanations, commonly referred to as passing the Occam’s razor test.

        Let's start with that. Very simple and straighforward. The "theory" of evolution is supported by multiple independent fields as diverse as molecular biology, developmental biology, genetics, behavior, and paleontology. It doesn not depend on the words written in one unsupported book written 1500 years ago.

        September 12, 2011 at 9:35 pm |
      • Pastafarian

        oops. Meant ofr this to be a new post. Now I have to post it again!

        September 12, 2011 at 9:38 pm |
  3. Some Guy

    One look at Michelle Obama is proof that we came from Monkeys!

    September 12, 2011 at 7:16 pm |
    • Randy S

      Ok, I may throw some barbs out there, but that's just plain nasty and mean-spirited.

      September 12, 2011 at 7:26 pm |
    • szerin

      Take your racist drivel elsewhere. You are not worthy to participate in this discussion.

      September 12, 2011 at 7:33 pm |
  4. josh

    who cares what this page and article has to say. its run by the illuminati.

    September 12, 2011 at 7:15 pm |
  5. Timothy Lee

    People who deny evolution through natural selection are willfully ignorant. It takes a special kind of empowered denial and ignorance to disagree with mountains of evidence. Evolution is a "theory" in the same way that we have a theory that the earth orbits the sun.

    September 12, 2011 at 7:15 pm |
  6. Randy S

    When you really stop and think about it, the Bible is a compilation, translation and interpretation of many people's writings over a very long period of time. As can be imagined, because of the differences in time and cultures, not all of the writings were in agreement with each other. This left it to the the political and religious leaders of any give time and place to 'edit' the final product and to determine what went in, what was left out and how it was interpreted. This process happened repeatedly over the centuries, and is still happening today. In some cases, the differences were big enough that different religions were formed around versions of these writings. But what it all comes down to is that the was written by a cast of thousands of wonderful, imaginative and fallible people; each with their own agenda. And so today, we live with the results. Christians hating Muslims hating Jews. All based in the beginning on the same writings. Great world we live in, isn't it?

    September 12, 2011 at 7:14 pm |
  7. West Bend Dave

    These arguments are about how the world (and the universe) was created, not about whether it happened. The creator goes about it the way he wants. It took his creation until now to understand the many ways it happened.

    September 12, 2011 at 7:14 pm |
  8. Bubba

    Actually there is nothing in the Bible that contradicts evolution. The Bible was written in terms illiterate people could understand. saying God created man from dirt could just be saying that life started from dirt (primordial ooze, mud) and then evolved into man. God/ the Bible saying that everything was created in 7 days could just be saying that everything was not created at once, it took place over time. A day didn't even exist until creation had begun... The Bible saying that God through satan out of heaven could be the Big bang – from nothing came something – energy to matter.

    September 12, 2011 at 7:13 pm |
  9. DaveMN

    I love how people with about an 8th grade science education KNOW that every PhD biologist on the planet is wrong. I love how a few lunatic fringe members of the Christian community think that the Bible was written to be the definitive science text and believe all that young earth nonsense.

    It's too bad that one has to be uneducated to be a Christian.

    September 12, 2011 at 7:13 pm |
  10. BeamMeUpScotty

    Google: ambam the gorilla

    Ambam can walk upright just like human beings because of EVOLUTION. He is genetically different than other gorillas.

    September 12, 2011 at 7:12 pm |
  11. pbsat

    Evolution is science fiction. People who said earth was flat were scientists of their day.

    September 12, 2011 at 7:11 pm |
    • Questionable

      Galileo was punished by the church for saying the earth wasnt the center of the universe

      September 12, 2011 at 7:14 pm |
      • Randell

        What the church did in the past was horrible but they did it to stay in power. Thats not justification in my book but it was in theirs. People needed the church back then to give them something to live for becuase they needed it. It doesnt make Christs teachings any less prevelant. Don't crucify Christ everytime a misguided sheep turns and acts the wolf.

        September 12, 2011 at 7:47 pm |
  12. LaPlut

    Some of the most prosperous countries in the world that have low death rates and high birth rates deny "god" and believe more in Evolution. We need to evolve and get rid of this outdated way of thinking.

    September 12, 2011 at 7:10 pm |
  13. BeamMeUpScotty

    WTF is this thingy "God"?!

    WTF is "Creationism" or "Intelligent Design"?!

    There is no LOGICAL ARGUMENT for what this thingy "GOD" is.
    There is no LOGICAL ARGUMENT for what "Creationism" or "Intelligent Design" is.

    Without a LOGICAL ARGUMENT, you don't even have a LOGICAL THOUGHT about what it is you are claiming to be true.

    That is the fundamental problem with THEISTIC WORLD-VIEWS: they don't make any sense! It's all gibberish!

    For folks who's God is based on Abraham's God – God of Genesis – if you do not understand why EVOLUTION falsifies your dogmas, then you clearly do not understand your religion at all.

    The first fundamental dogma of the OLD TESTAMENT is that of ORIGIN SIN.

    ORIGINAL SIN claims HUMANS (ie. MAN) brought SIN into this world through an act of defiance against some thingy labelled "God". More specifically, ORIGINAL SIN says we are pathetic creatures who caused DEATH into existence.

    EVOLUTION clearly shows that DEATH and other acts considered as SIN – like sex and killing for food and survival – are all NATURAL processes of existence. Humans did not bring DEATH and SUFFERING into existence. It was there before the first humans emerged!

    Where as ORIGINAL SIN claims humans are becoming less perfect, EVOLUTION shows we are becoming more perfect.

    Clearly, EVOLUTION contradicts the first fundamental dogma of the "Jewish-God".

    If humans are not responsible for bringing DEATH (ie. SIN) into existence, then clearly there is no need for a MESSIAH to come save us from DEATH, ie. "Jesus".

    In summary: EVOLUTION proves ORIGINAL SIN is false!

    No ORIGIN SIN => No need for "Jesus" => No "Jewish-God" of Abraham.

    Only we can solve our own problems. No sky-daddy is coming to save us. The sooner we get over these childish fairy-tales, the better off we will be in solving all of the problems we face today.

    September 12, 2011 at 7:10 pm |
    • theimmigrant

      "What is this "God" thingy"?
      Really that's the most intelligent argument you can come up with?
      You are an atheist, so are you admitting you're rejecting something you are ignorant about?

      Here is some logic for you from a Christian who have not committed intellectual suicide contrary to your childish stereo typing.

      if you want to use logic or common sens, according to Math (you believe in math right?) the easiest way to solve a complicated issue is to convert the problem to its simplest form.

      Now, here is the problem in its simplest form, no matter who how you slice this physical universe to its minutest component, that component cannot explain its own existence it has to come from something somewhere somehow, I have not seen anything that came from nothing unless you believe in magic, I don't.
      The reality of once existence demands a source or a cause (we can all agree on this), theists call it Creator, atheist call it unknown, but ignores/rejects/denies this unknown and I wonder why?
      Is the existence of God is a matter of evidence or a matter of pride as far as atheists are concerned? Only an atheist can answer that.

      September 12, 2011 at 9:22 pm |
  14. Old Fool

    Look around. We are still very much evolving. Look at how different each one of us is and how much like other family members we are. Look at how we compare old photos of ourselves with our grandparents and grandchildren (I have both) Regional and ethnic tendencies are starting to really show some interesting blends of ideas and appearance. Anthropologists and paleantologists are finding new old things all of the time and trying to piece them into a picture of how what is today came to be. This picture is important to all of us and those who would deny it are victims of evolution. That is why they condemn it and create things that, somehow, they can believe in. Faith is a dangerous thing. It is proof that we can be easily manipulated and defines those who are, as well as their manipulators. I think the Catholic Church is having some issues with this right now. There are people in this country who think that Muslims and other immigrants are the most dangerous element out there, today. But the really dangerous ones are the ones who control the people of faith by posing as one of them. A strong personality and the ability to manipulate the faithful makes for a good living. Look how faith has manipulated many of the Muslim faith. The faithful can see that, but they cant seem to get it when it comes to their own manipulated selves. These folks seem to want to live the same lives over and over again rather than seeking the future. There is a place for these folks but not in governent and never at the head of the class (unless they are the hidden manipulators.). That's about it. All the rest is much ado about little stuff. .

    September 12, 2011 at 7:08 pm |
  15. Questionable

    Funny thing is how ignorant some of these science goers are about their science. Earlier one poster stated that things in the primordial soup occured in sequence. There was no sequence or "planned" next step. It was once simply put, survival of the fittest.

    September 12, 2011 at 7:08 pm |
  16. Sassan Darian

    "Humans seem compelled to project our own nature onto nature. Man in his arrogance thinks himself a great work worthy of the interposition of a deity."

    September 12, 2011 at 7:08 pm |
    • Deception9000

      ...This coming from a human yet! Humbug.

      September 12, 2011 at 7:11 pm |
    • Old Fool

      Short and sweet. I like it.

      September 12, 2011 at 7:12 pm |
  17. Joey Boom Boom

    The church says the earth is flat, but I know that it is round, for I have seen the shadow on the moon, and I have more faith in a shadow than in the church. —

    September 12, 2011 at 7:07 pm |
    • Deception9000

      No. They changed their stance on the earth. It's spherical now. I'm sure it was just a misunderstanding. Make sure you talk with a priest before you babble scientific facts. 🙂

      September 12, 2011 at 7:13 pm |
  18. LaPlut

    "Science will always win!" Carl Sagan

    September 12, 2011 at 7:07 pm |
    • dudley0418

      When he died, he lost.

      September 12, 2011 at 7:11 pm |
      • Deception9000

        humbug

        September 12, 2011 at 7:13 pm |
    • Observer

      "When he died, he lost."

      You don't have a clue if he did.

      September 12, 2011 at 7:13 pm |
  19. Randell

    This is all fine and dandy but when your 80 and the lights start to go out, all you over evolved monkeys will ask for Gods forgiveness and it will be there.

    September 12, 2011 at 7:07 pm |
    • Questionable

      "kiss my @ss" – John Wayne Gacy, last words.

      September 12, 2011 at 7:11 pm |
      • Randell

        Trust me his defiance of our laws and judgement doesnt prove anything in regardes to his soul.

        September 12, 2011 at 7:12 pm |
    • Randell

      I do wonder though why people disbeleive God. Your very existence proves that he exists. But if that isn't good enough for you, then keep argueing the bakers secrets, you will never be able to reproduce that secret ingredient.

      September 12, 2011 at 7:11 pm |
    • Joey Boom Boom

      And on Christmas eve I ask for Santa's forgiveness. Does he exist too?

      – You know your god is man made when he hates all the same people you do

      September 12, 2011 at 7:11 pm |
      • Randell

        Hate who said I hate anyone? Forgiveness is for the one asking, not my judgement to decide who needs it. My limited understanding is just relavent to my three dimensionally based 5 senses that I can neither see clearly nor understand.

        September 12, 2011 at 7:17 pm |
    • Deception9000

      If I was at the bottom of a well, or a collapsed mineshaft, believing I was at my end, I'm sure I would believe anything you told me. Fear is the culprit of most ignorant religious beliefs.

      September 12, 2011 at 7:16 pm |
      • Randell

        Fear is part of it. Its at the center of this discussion. The fact that one argues his point over the other is a symptom of fear actually. Most people have to argue because they fear they are wrong and if they argue it better then the next it gives them comfort. I am different becuase I don't fear, to the contrary I am fine with either.

        September 12, 2011 at 7:20 pm |
  20. hammerdsteel

    hey u monkees...waht i wrong with third place? Sombody has to be there...u just got the bad end of the STICK!

    September 12, 2011 at 7:07 pm |
  21. Mark J

    O Jesus our Lord, How excellent is Your name in all the earth!
    You who have set your glory over the heavens!
    Give praise to our God! Call upon His name!
    He is the Creator! He is the Alpha and the Omega!
    He will gain the whole earth!
    All the peoples of the earth will praise His name for eternity!
    People do not rebel against God, for God will prevail! Science should support God, not contradict God.
    Jesus is Lord!
    Hallelujah!!!

    September 12, 2011 at 7:07 pm |
    • Old Fool

      That's right. Dont let reality get in your way. Believe in YOURSELF and then move forward.

      September 12, 2011 at 7:15 pm |
  22. atomicwaste

    Deny, deny, deny. Just like a politician caught with his pants down, those who trash evolution don't let facts and evidence stand in their way. These folks are a scary lot. Same mind-set as those who tortured non-believers in the past.

    September 12, 2011 at 7:06 pm |
  23. Terry Brookman

    Some do, some don't.

    September 12, 2011 at 7:05 pm |
  24. Trololololol

    OMG he accidently the darwin

    September 12, 2011 at 7:04 pm |
    • what

      Over 9000

      September 12, 2011 at 7:39 pm |
  25. H3DIDIT

    Ok listen and listen good. Evolution is a MYTH. Just like the loch ness monster and bigfoot. A MYTH. Get it through your idoitic skulls. You evoulutionists/atheists claim to have "proof" to evolution. Well lets be honest, you don't. Everything that you people claim to be proof is not. It has all been disproven by one book. The BIBLE. If u evolutionists tell us creatonists to read books then you should too. Heres a great one. And for more information you should GOOGLE Answers in Genesis. And please dont bother me with all the crap about we came from apes and they are our common ancestors. And when you say well different breeds of dogs are a prime example they are not. Quite frankly there are many breeds of dogs but in the end they are still canine. They are not a new species of animal just variations. If we came from apes then we must be variation. And well apes walk on fours and we walk on two and apes, well apes are apes. Resources Bible and answersingenisis.

    September 12, 2011 at 7:04 pm |
    • Trololololol

      Scientology explains it much better. You bible is flawed! LONG LIVE XENU

      September 12, 2011 at 7:06 pm |
    • KonaTRM

      Sorry, you are 1) angry and 2) 100% dead wrong. Evolution is fact. Gravity is fact. Deal with it.

      September 12, 2011 at 7:07 pm |
    • BeefFlavoredDoggyChewToy

      I love your attitude: "Don't bother me with scientific facts while I spew about science!"

      PRICELESS.

      September 12, 2011 at 7:09 pm |
    • Old Fool

      How can I possibly believe all the evidence found by folks smart enough and ambitious enough to find it? How could I possibly believe them when they take these pieces of the puzzle of life and put them together in a meaningful way? That is just too hard. It is a lot easier to just believe in Santa Claus and the Easter bunny. A little bit of history, a little bit of magic and a whole lot of chicanery goes a long way into stopping evolution. If you have gotten out much you will notice that there are still plenty of Cavemen around.

      September 12, 2011 at 7:23 pm |
    • szerin

      This is frighteningly circular reasoning. A bible tells me it is true, therefore is must be true. Is the heliocentric solar system also a myth?

      September 12, 2011 at 7:31 pm |
    • Andrew

      I really quite love Answers in Genesis. It highlights how blindingly idiotic the "science" these creationists toss out is. I was given a perfect example a few months ago. Turns out there's a paper on answers in genesis concerning "the starlight problem". A new cosmology: solution to the starlight traveltime problem, from "answers in genesis" magazine. It's written in the "style" of a peer reviewed physics paper, and by that I mean it has two columns and numbers and letters are used. Though, interesting to note, it wasn't written in LaTeX, but who needs typesetting when you only have two "equations"?

      Yes, two. Two equations. I invite anyone who is curious about the "science" behind answers in genesis to take the time to read this free paper.

      There's a section called, literally "Calculations". Please, find it, it's hilarious. The first equation is supposed to be the "difference of rate between earth and the cosmos", and set it equal to a constant. Where the constant came from is not explained, instead it just lets their next equation come up with the answer they wanted. But what's particularly funny about the first equation is that it's written in the style of partial derivatives, which look much more fancy than "d". See, partial derivatives are used for functions of multiple variables. For example f(x,y), you'd have f_x and f_y, which would be partial(f) over partial (x), or if you wanted f_y, you'd replace partial(x) with "partial(y)". To say "this variable is the time in cosmos", and "this variable is time on earth", then what's supposed to be in the numerator would be the function that you are taking the derivative with respect to the bottom.

      What answers in genesis does is they write things that look like science, without understanding of what the science says.

      That's just from the FIRST equation, their second is just as funny. It's an "integral", which they like cause they look fancy. It doesn't actually mean anything, and it's a silly calculation considering those "partial derivatives" are in there, so truly impossible to compute that way, they arrive at a number twice the age of the universe in the first place.

      Look at that, you attach arbitrary constants to functions you write only to make them look fancy, and get an equally arbitrary result, and then call that "calculations"?

      Answers in genesis doesn't know what science is to save their lives. It's funny, I was studying for my astronomy class before watching the US open (currently airing), so I had the "textbook" that my professor wrote behind the 5 page pdf from answers in genesis. It's amazing to compare and contrast the two. My professor clearly wrote the book in LaTeX, the integrals are very pretty. He also carefully explains where every constant comes from... and deriving them. It's weird to compare science to the creationist strange awful mangling of the subject.

      Problem with making math look fancy... the symbols have meaning, and if you don't know that, you're not doing math.

      September 12, 2011 at 8:13 pm |
  26. Jon

    I am Mormon and I completely believe in evolution. Not all mormons do....but I completely do. I just accept it as part of God's plan. I don't see any conflict between the garden of eden story and neandrathal man. Why does there only have to be one and not the other? If we look at fossils....it looks to me like God had other human-like creatures roaming around...not just us. That said...I also believe I'm descended from Adam. I don't get why both can't be true.

    September 12, 2011 at 7:03 pm |
    • farmerjane

      I'm with you Jon. God can do whatever and did. Evolution is one method he used

      September 12, 2011 at 7:08 pm |
    • Deception9000

      How can anyone choose or continue to be a mormon is beyond belief. 144,000....sorry...it's just too easy to ridicule.
      It's just slightly less strange than scientology. Religions so far removed from evolution debate...quack, quack.

      September 12, 2011 at 7:23 pm |
      • Jon

        144,000....you might be referring to JW's...check your facts at mormon.org. Not sure what you are getting at...but I know some religious groups believe for some reason that only 14,000 get into heaven...but thats not the mormons.

        September 12, 2011 at 8:05 pm |
  27. JustMe

    Evolution is a religious propaganda to the naive audience of searchers for real meaning in life. Satanism falls in line with evolution and it is a cop out from facing real life. In the stead of evolution, I believer there is a mighty and holy Being who was responsible for all created living life on earth and in the entire universe if there are any other living creatures in the outer space.

    September 12, 2011 at 7:03 pm |
    • farmerjane

      I'm with you JUSTME. GOD created everything. But that still doesn't mean there isn't evolution

      September 12, 2011 at 7:14 pm |
  28. pirate

    OMG – Blake, here ya go – Number 9 on the Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamental Christian!!!

    9 – You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

    September 12, 2011 at 7:03 pm |
    • Ashrakay

      haha

      September 12, 2011 at 7:04 pm |
    • Bubba

      Actually we were created from something God scraped off of his shoe and I don't think it was dirt!

      September 12, 2011 at 7:07 pm |
  29. szerin

    @ Dave, nicely said. However, I would point out that those that accept evolution do not do so out of faith, but rather a long series of discoveries that continue to support and strengthen the theory. I'm would not say that this is proof any more that I can prove atomic orbital theory, or the theory of plate tectonics, or the theory of gravity. I find it remarkable that after 150 years of the empirical evidence continuing to support the theory, that so many are still afraid to embrace it. Evolution accurately describes a natural process, but many view this as an attack on God. Science does not have an agenda to destroy faith, or God. On the other hand, the religious have made a long and concerted effort to vilify those in the sciences, and actively try to distort the scientific fact with pseudo-science, such as intelligent design. If we start teaching ID in our science classes, we will no longer have a scientifically literate country. Keep faith in church and science in schools.

    September 12, 2011 at 7:02 pm |
  30. Shawn Irwin`

    There are 7,770,000 species on the earth. If there are 90% insects, and we consider them to be all very small, (which we know they are not), we could say that each pair, in order to fit on the "ARK" would need 4 square inches for two of them, plus their food for 40 days.
    Since 12 inches squared = 144 cubic inches, 144 cubic inches / 4 cubic inches = 36 per square foot. We know that, the insect population is about 80 – 90% of the entire 7,770,000 species, so making a conservative estimate, we will say it is 90%. 7,770,000 * 90% = 6,993,000 insects. 6,993,000 insects / 36 insect per square foot = 174,250 square foot needed to house all of these insects, and their food. Now the animals. 7,770,000 – 6,993,000 = 777,000 animals. We will again be conservative, and say that each animal requires only 3 cubic feet living space and three cubic foot for 40 days supply of food. 9 cubic feet total for each pair of species. They say the average size is actually that of a sheep, which would be more like 9 cubic feet for the two sheep alone. So, 777,000 animals x 9 cubic feet = 6993000 cubic feet required to house them. Now we will take the total needed for the insects and the total for the animals and add them together. 6,993,000 square foot + 174,250 square foot = 7,167,250 square feet needed on the whole "ARK". (We will not even count the space needed for the humans, breathing space for all of the animals, or for the internal structure of the "Ark" itself.) Now the dimensions of the "ARK" are well known. The length of the ark – 300 cubits, its breadth 50 cubits, and its height 30 cubits". This is equivalent to a length of 450 feet, a breadth of 75 feet and a height of 44 feet (assuming an 18" cubit); or 500 Feet, 83 feet and 49 feet (if it was the Egpytian 20" cubit). (We will use the larger size, just to give the bible thumpers a better chance) 500 x 83 x 49 gives 2,033,500 cubic feet. But wait, we needed 7,167,250 cubic feet! That is 3.5 times more space needed than the "ARK" provided! And, we did not calculate for breathing space or the internal structure of the "Ark" itself. So, bible thumpers, please tell me, what did god do, shrink the animals? What new ridiculus explanation will you need to explain this inconsistancy?

    September 12, 2011 at 7:01 pm |
    • Bubba

      Have you ever seen Doctor Who? The Ark was larger inside than it was outside. Boy are you an idiot!! Noah even had room for 36 hookers he brought along for entertainment.

      September 12, 2011 at 7:04 pm |
      • Old Fool

        I believe you are wrong. He only brought 2.

        September 12, 2011 at 7:26 pm |
    • dudley0418

      The really misunderstood part is that you are trying to prove philosophy with mathematics. You are using the wrong tool. This is why you won't convince anyone. (Those who think as you do are already convinced in their correctness, hence need no explanation.)

      September 12, 2011 at 7:05 pm |
    • Shawn Irwin

      dudley0418 Oh, wait! I see your logic! 2+2 does not equal four!

      September 12, 2011 at 7:11 pm |
    • Observer

      Dudley,

      Mathematics is irrefutable, unlike the Bible. Please TRY to explain the ark using any possible logic, math, science, and common sense.

      September 12, 2011 at 7:17 pm |
  31. agavemike

    Illusion: Seeing a snake on the wall in a dark room turning the light on and realizing its a crack.
    Dellusion: Turning the lights on and still seeing a snake.

    September 12, 2011 at 7:01 pm |
  32. Ashrakay

    If you want evidence against evolution, just read some of the stupid comments in this forum. Really people, read something that isn't the bible or guns and ammo magazine.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:57 pm |
    • Deception9000

      Wait..I'm confused...we're not all robots here?

      September 12, 2011 at 7:27 pm |
  33. hammerdsteel

    My thoughts on evolution are the same as Darwin's. Man came form APES. Blacks are on the bottom of the pole as they are still evolving upward. Yellow colored folks are on Top of the pole as they are the highest form. Caucasian idios are in the middle and neggors are on the bottom...nothing is changed...that is the way it is. CNN needs to get more news to report on as they are STUPID!

    September 12, 2011 at 6:57 pm |
    • dudley0418

      Darwin never mentioned man in On the Origin of Species. You could look it up.

      But you won't.

      September 12, 2011 at 7:00 pm |
    • No thanks...

      Those of us on the side of evolution really don't need, or appreciate, your "help".

      September 12, 2011 at 7:01 pm |
    • Questionable

      I hope you are joking, because you obviously know nothing about evolution

      September 12, 2011 at 7:01 pm |
    • OpforOpfor

      hammeredsteel, someone should hammer steel in your head

      September 12, 2011 at 7:03 pm |
  34. victim of democrat hypocrisy

    Evolution is factual and demonstrable. To deny it is to deny any change takes place in the universe.

    Furthermore, there are no gods or goddesses, demons or devils, ghosts or goblins. Religion was invented by man to control the masses.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:56 pm |
  35. doulos

    The major problem here is that few on either side understand the other. Few proponents of ID truly understand what the theory of Evolution really is and few people who believe in Evolution (it is still a theory, therefore requires "belief") really understand what ID really means in its true form. Evolution is deeply misunderstood and so is Intelligent Design. I have seen many ignorant people (on both sides) call the proponents of the belief opposite of theirs, well, basically idiots. We must not act like all proponents of Evolution are stupid, but we must not act like all proponents of ID don't know anything about science or if they do just throw it all out the window for faith. To set the record straight, ID at its simplest form is not out to say the Christian God created the universe. It is trying to give good reason, (no one can PROVE how the earth started or how humans came to be, we must follow the BEST argument) that a supreme being created the world and everything in it. I am not screaming for anyone to believe anything. I know where I stand and will gladly share with people, with intelligence, where I stand and why I believe what I do but arguing on blogs like this is a waste of time. I simply want both sides to see how ignorant they can be on the matter. Support your stance with intelligence, instead of firing off on those who see it differently than you. Making low blows at your opponent just makes you look ignorant, not right.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:56 pm |
    • Cass314

      If that's what ID truly is (and I've heard proponents of ID describe it a lot differently than that, but whatever), sure, think that, whatever. I mean, feel free to think YEC if you want. But unless you've got evidence for God, neither belongs in science class, and the fact that so many people in this country are trying to put ID there is I think what causes a lot of the backlash about the idea at all. (I'm not saying you're trying to do this specifically; but ID originated as a movement to rebrand creationism in an attempt to get it into classrooms; that's the history of the term). You're entitled to your own personal beliefs even if they're unsupported; you're not entitled to screw with the education of other people's children to get your unsupported beliefs taught as science.

      September 12, 2011 at 7:04 pm |
      • Deception9000

        YES! Ditto.

        September 12, 2011 at 7:31 pm |
  36. Bubba

    The really scary thing is that these "Intelligent Design" folks and those that believe the earth is only 2000 years old are allowed to vote. They are the Tea Party and they will believe just about anything if they are told it's in the bible.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:55 pm |
    • Bibletruth

      Someone believes the earth is only 2000 years old????? LOL..LOL...It is quite obvious from revelation the earth is somewhat over 6,000 years old. lol.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:58 pm |
    • Ashrakay

      4000 years, but yeah I agree. Voting and breeding rights should be withheld from these people.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:58 pm |
    • Answer

      No the real fear from that the Intelligent Design movement is their control in the printing of textbooks that will be used in the upcoming school literature. You can read about it.

      Texas is the first to promote Intelligent Design dogma. You'll see the text books that will be in Texas. Rick Perry got them for that state. A hardcore advocate that man. If you want to find out about it. It's the title in the Dallas Observer blogs -Politics section- "Here Are the Proposed Texas Science Lessons Freaking Out the Scientific Community" dated July 20-2011.

      Texas .. what a joke of a state.

      September 12, 2011 at 7:04 pm |
      • Deception9000

        As a Texan, I won't take your Texas comment personal as I'm well aware of human ignorance throughout the globe–you maybe among them. However, I do agree it is unfortunate that religion is used in school systems to indoctrinate young children to live as another generation of ignorant. Schools should be used to educate and not disseminate dogma or opinion. It's not Texas per se to blame, it's the publisher who service the greatest number of schools which happen to be in the second most populace state in the nation.

        September 12, 2011 at 7:42 pm |
    • pirate

      well then show them what's in the bible! Murder, rape, human sacrifice, racism, slavery, war, and baby killing all endorsed by their invisible man in the sky!

      September 12, 2011 at 7:08 pm |
      • Ashrakay

        very true

        September 12, 2011 at 7:11 pm |
    • Deception9000

      ...and that's why it's so easy to rule over an ignorant society. If you pay me enough too, I will believe your dog Twixler is the messenger of the almighty.

      September 12, 2011 at 7:33 pm |
  37. Bibletruth

    Someone said "Our brains have evolved and the cranium has had to enlarge to house it." And gives as proof the increase in C births. I have read long ago, dont remember what journal, about one of the main problems with the theory of evolution , at least taught back then to the scientists who wrote the article, was why the tremendous overkill re the human brain? Why this organ that has a million times capacity than needed if evolution is adaptation to need? Maybe they know now, I dont know . My theory about that is because God created us to live forever. And there is a lot we are going to learn forever.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:55 pm |
    • Ashrakay

      Learn, like that science and evolution is real? It's not some made up fairy tale we tell ourselves to feel better? That kind of thing?

      September 12, 2011 at 7:02 pm |
    • Old Fool

      If you are learning a lot (forever) why is it that deny factual evidence as if it is a plot to overthrow your beliefs. Believe what you want, but dont expect people of free will, intelligence and a good self image to believe it too. I do not need to be born again, I was born right the first time.

      September 12, 2011 at 7:32 pm |
  38. OpforOpfor

    Why did my post get deleted?

    September 12, 2011 at 6:55 pm |
  39. SashaGriff

    I have found those most religious are usually the most rigid in their thinking and therefore intolerant of anything out of the norm. It is much safer to believe dogma than to think on your own. While I believe in God, I don't believe He/She controls anything here. I also think (horrors!) all of us have different experiences based upon how own selves. I imagine since we have free will, we are responsible and accountable for our actions – no one died so I can live. Such silliness. I know humans come from the sea. We were fish at one time, let alone primates. This fact disrupts and angers religious thinking because the the religious all see themselves as above animals solely because "that's in the Bible". It isn't scary for me to believe we are all connected and therefore equal but I know it is for those who are religious. For those who are spiritual and who are connected to Earth (our Mother) and nature, I am yours and you are mine.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:54 pm |
    • farmerjane

      I am yours and you are mine. I love it........

      September 12, 2011 at 7:05 pm |
  40. Bubba

    We were created by God, but God was an alien who came to this planet millions of years ago and altered the DNA of some primate to me more in 'His' image. 🙂

    September 12, 2011 at 6:53 pm |
  41. Semantics,too

    Apes, monkeys or "common ancestor", IDers don't care as long as it is the one they find most insulting to their God-like egos. The crux of the matter is that they prefer the idea of a powerful being reaching into the mud to shape them to look like him than to have to actually look at evidence and think about something that makes sense and has evidence to support it. The fairy tales are deeply ingrained in too many Americans. Until these folks are able to recognize the myths and lies of religion for the primitive almalgamated mythology it is, they will never be open to the truth. "Belief" is by definition illogical and unarguable.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:53 pm |
    • pirate

      LOL – right, not only are we not evolved from lower life forms, we come from something the lower life forms walk on and p on, we are MUD! LMAO!

      September 12, 2011 at 7:11 pm |
  42. robert boose

    there just is not any proof of evolution those who try to tell you that there is have no solid evidence they are truely just beleveing what liberal teachers tell them there just is no real proof

    September 12, 2011 at 6:52 pm |
    • Jeff

      Boose, your statement shows your ignorance, please stop.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:54 pm |
    • KonaTRM

      Listening to bloviating talk show hosts (or bloviating pastors) is no substitute for education.

      September 12, 2011 at 7:01 pm |
    • Ashrakay

      Oh my. Categorization: Should not reproduce

      September 12, 2011 at 7:14 pm |
  43. Chris

    The number one reason some people don't believe in evolution is that they are just too weak and scared to admit to themselves that the dirty old skull some anthropologist just dug up could one day be all that's left of THEM.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:52 pm |
  44. James Andrews

    Holy mackeral! Man! This is messed up! Okay, so ... I understand ... your faith is too unstable to handle the fact that God had to reveal his Word to mankind of 2 and 3 thousand years ago. These people didn't understand science, so God revealed his Word in such a way as to perfectly preserve Truth, but was not intended as a science book. Now, you want something more to help you than this man vs. ape argument that's been going on here ...

    How about the fact that human DNA contains inactive genes for things very very very un-human. We still possess much of the DNA code for many of the animal attributes which are no longer active, but are still part of our genome.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:51 pm |
  45. Kathleen

    It's the "Ah-Ha" moments when scientists proudly discover the workings of the mysteries of a so-called "happenstance universe" that makes God laugh. How is it that so many things "make sense", when all of this just kind of happened in a perfect sequence over billions of years? Every seed is genetically coded to be a "specific design" to become what the DNA tells it to be. It's over the tops of the heads of the most intellectual minds.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:51 pm |
    • Questionable

      Seems to be over your head too

      September 12, 2011 at 7:00 pm |
    • KonaTRM

      The pursuit and discovery of knowledge and scientific breakthrough is endless; just because we do not have all the answers NOW doesn't mean, or PROVE, God Did It.

      Consider how much more we know about the Universe than we did 100 years ago, a mere hummingbird flutter in the endless march of time.

      September 12, 2011 at 7:00 pm |
    • VonDoom

      I don't trust people who claim to know who God laughs at. Thank you for proving that God does have a sense of humor.

      September 12, 2011 at 7:19 pm |
      • Ashrakay

        Anyway laughter is brought on by a moment of surprise of something happening that is unexpected. Seems like god can be caught off guard. We should use this to our advantage when we sneak up on him and kill him.

        September 12, 2011 at 7:25 pm |
    • Ashrakay

      So why don't you believe in fairies by that logic. There's an equal amount of evidence supporting a rainbow snake gave birth to man, and this snake encoded everything for us. What makes you believe one fairy tale over another? Why not Zeus? Why not Taiowa, Odin or Ymir? All of them could have encoded our DNA.

      September 12, 2011 at 7:23 pm |
    • Deception9000

      You have a hotline to the almight?!!!! I want to know next weeks powerballs!! 😉

      September 12, 2011 at 7:46 pm |
  46. Anthony

    All these religious people denying evolution on the grounds of “it can’t be possible because god created me" really need to stop and face the facts. There is no denying that evolution is real. We may not have the full story yet or understand it completely, but what we do know is proven science. No getting around it folks. Especially not by holding up your book full of stories – which are really nothing more than mythical tales – and saying, “if evolution is true then God doesn’t exist. Therefore evolution can’t be true because God does exist.” (Which is essentially the argument) But there is no reason one can’t believe in God and keep every bit of their faith while at the same time accept evolution. For example, one way of looking at Creationism vs. evolution is that back when the bible was written, we didn’t yet understand evolution, so the people writing the bible took gods words and interpreted them in a way that made sense. So when god described where humans came from, we could only understand His meaning within the confines of our own knowledge and thus the more literal concept of humans being made from dirt is what ends up in the bible. I mean, that’s just an example and you don’t have to necessarily accept that, but the point is that it is possible to believe in God and still accept the real factual discoveries being made by science all the time (including evolution). There’s nothing wrong with that. Our understanding of where we came from through science can also help our understanding of the bible rather than implying that you can’t have both.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:51 pm |
    • Bibletruth

      er Anthony, sorry...you cant have both.

      September 12, 2011 at 7:02 pm |
  47. God of Biscuits

    Dear CNN:

    You suck. Not everything deserves a "both sides" approach.

    Lazy-ass "journalism".

    What's next? Flat-earthers? Heliocentrism? Tea-partiers?

    September 12, 2011 at 6:49 pm |
    • Ashrakay

      Well said!!

      September 12, 2011 at 7:00 pm |
    • Deception9000

      ..but wait you called it journalism. That it is not. It's entertainment.

      September 12, 2011 at 7:48 pm |
  48. Eric

    1. How did life begin?
    Does science say something can't come from nothing?
    Doesn't science say something alive can't come from non-living matter?
    2. Is any form of life really simple?
    The complex molecules in the simplest living thing cannot reproduce alone. Outside the cell, they break down. Inside the cell, they cannot reproduce without the help of other complex molecules. For example, enzymes are needed to produce a special energy molecule called adenosine triphosphate (ATP), but energy from ATP is needed to produce enzymes. Similarly, DNA is required to make enzymes, but enzymes are required to make DNA. Also, other proteins can be made only by a cell, but a cell can be made only with proteins.
    What came first dna, rna or proteins?
    3.Where did the instructions come from?
    If evolution is true, then it should seem at least reasonably possible that DNA could have come about by means of a series of chance events. If the Bible is true, then DNA should provide strong evidence that it is the product of an orderly, intelligent mind.
    Fact: DNA is packaged within the chromosomes in a manner so efficient that it has been called a “feat of engineering.”
    Question: How could such order and organization arise by undirected chance events?
    ▪ Fact: DNA’s capacity to store information still has no equal in today’s computer age.
    Question: If human computer technicians cannot achieve such results, how could mindless matter do so on its own?
    ▪ Fact: DNA contains all the instructions needed to build a unique human body and maintain it throughout life.
    Question: How could such writing come about without a writer, such programming without a programmer?
    ▪ Fact: For DNA to work, it has to be copied, read, and proofread by a swarm of complex molecular machines called enzymes, which must work together with precision and split-second timing.
    Question: Do you believe that highly complex, highly reliable machinery can come about by chance? Without solid proof, would not such a belief amount to blind faith?

    4.Has All Life Descended From a Common Ancestor?
    Recent research continues to contradict Darwin’s theory of common descent. For example, in 2009 an article in New Scientist magazine quoted evolutionary scientist Eric Bapteste as saying: “We have no evidence at all that the tree of life is a reality.” The same article quotes evolutionary biologist Michael Rose as saying: “The tree of life is being politely buried, we all know that. What’s less accepted is that our whole fundamental view of biology needs to change.”

    ▪ The first life on earth was not “simple.”
    ▪ The odds against even the components of a cell arising by chance are astronomical.
    ▪ DNA, the “computer program,” or code, that runs the cell, is incredibly complex and gives evidence of a genius that far surpasses any program or information storage system produced by humans.
    ▪ Genetic research shows that life did not originate from a single common ancestor. In addition, major groups of animals appear suddenly in the fossil record.

    5. Is It Reasonable to Believe the Bible?
    Yes, yes and yes.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:49 pm |
    • Questionable

      We are finding out more and more that yes "something" can come from "nothing". Try keeping up.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:52 pm |
    • KonaTRM

      Do you enjoy CSI? Do you believe DNA evidence is scientifically valid? Mitochondrial DNA PROVES we have common ancestors and human species well before the Bible does. Copying and pasting other people's works without credit is also a copyright violation! 🙂

      September 12, 2011 at 6:52 pm |
    • Questionable

      Viruses are very simple

      September 12, 2011 at 6:53 pm |
    • Simple Trilobyte

      On behalf of my brethren, the long-extinct trilobyte empire, I thank you for not referring to us as "simple." We've been fighting against trilobype simple bias for millions, even billions of years.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:56 pm |
    • Bibletruth

      Evolution...just Google it. Oh google is a number with a million zeros. Put a line over the top of that google number, a 1 above the line and you start to see the ridiculous chance of evolution.

      September 12, 2011 at 7:07 pm |
      • BeefFlavoredDoggyChewToy

        Bibletruth: THAT is your proof? Please. A Google isn';t a real number, for starters! :-O

        September 12, 2011 at 7:12 pm |
    • Shawn Irwin

      The logic of your arguement is quickly destroyed the minute you ask the question . . . Where did "god" come from?

      September 12, 2011 at 7:08 pm |
    • Answer

      Eric,

      5. Is It Reasonable to Believe the Bible?
      Yes, yes and yes.

      Silly. self promotion. All you needed to type out was that. You silly religious nut. All the other words were just a smoke screen for your own agenda.

      My reply says it all.

      September 12, 2011 at 7:09 pm |
      • Eric

        The questions are based in science and fact. Instead of insulting why don't you take an honest look at the answers. The bible's order of creation agrees with science's current theories. How did moises know the order of creation?

        September 12, 2011 at 7:16 pm |
    • Bubba

      You ever stop to think that maybe it wasn't God? maybe we were programmed by a super advanced alien race, maybe as a science experiment?

      September 12, 2011 at 7:24 pm |
      • Deception9000

        maybe. Not.

        September 12, 2011 at 7:55 pm |
    • Cass314

      The entire premise of your argument is flawed. You are arguing that because we do not know everything, we do not know anything and should therefore turn to a non-answer by positing an untestable God. That is nonsense. Science works by asking questions and finding the answers by looking at the evidence. That we haven't yet answered one question does not mean that our explanation to another question shouldn't stand until proven otherwise. And that we haven't yet answered a question does not in any case mean we should close our eyes and say that God is the answer. Instead, we look at the evidence and find the answer. God is a non-answer. Throughout human history, it is the non-answer we have posited based on no evidence at all when we did not have the means or the will to go find the evidence.

      At one point we knew very little about the world and the universe. Some people thought the sun was a god, and others thought that the sun was pulled by a different God in his chariot. Some thought that infectious disease was a punishment from God, but we now understand germ theory. Some thought children with birth defects were part demon, but we now understand how a lot of these come about in development. Everything we know now about the natural world, we once attributed to the supernatural. And people who shut their minds off and insisted that "God did it" naysayed and sometimes violently persecuted those who did the finding.

      Again, the idea that a lack of knowledge should be a reason not to go looking, or that lack of knowledge in one area invalidates knowledge in another, is patently absurd. Gallileo didn't have access to Newton's work on gravity, but he was still right. Fibbonacci didn't know calculus. Newton didn't know about relativity. Darwin, whose work was incomplete and occasionally incorrect but monumentally instrumental, didn't yet know about DNA and Watson and Crick at the time didn't know about epigenetics. Science is incremental, and necessarily builds on earlier knowledge. Yesterday's discovery is today's tool for more discovery. Einstein acknowledged that he was standing on the shoulders of giants. The fact that we don't know something yet in no way casts doubt upon what we do know based on evidence, and is no reason to stop looking–in fact, it's every reason to keep looking.

      September 12, 2011 at 7:51 pm |
    • Deception9000

      You only believe in implausible things when you are forced to medicinally or indoctrinated to it. It doesn't disqualify a fact to be able to question it's origins scientifically. Religious books are not de facto as some take them to be. Evolution is a great discovery. Many religionists seek to destroy science by demanding to effect that they're beliefs are right without fault and without evidence to support them. Science uses evidence which religion does not.

      September 12, 2011 at 7:54 pm |
  49. farmerjane

    Evolving is exactly what GOD wants and you help in this program by overcoming the obstacles, so the next time you are here, you are going to be that much further in your evolution. Instead of looking at the little picture, expand (evolve) to the larger picture. Instead of staying in your "skin", evolve to a higher plane. Move on, moooove on.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:47 pm |
    • Deception9000

      If YOU knew what 'god' wants, this wouldn't be a debate. Since you don't know, it's all hyperbole.

      September 12, 2011 at 7:57 pm |
  50. Deception9000

    Wow, people still believe in a deity?? Not everything your parents is true. Take that as fact and in a few generations if we're lucky we'll have a good start.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:47 pm |
    • KonaTRM

      There are no athiests in foxholes or casinos.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:54 pm |
      • dudley0418

        Marshall Foche.

        September 12, 2011 at 7:08 pm |
      • Answer

        Those who have died are still dead.

        September 12, 2011 at 7:11 pm |
      • VonDoom

        I'm an Atheist and have been in both. Kinda blows a hole in that theory huh?

        September 12, 2011 at 7:11 pm |
    • dudley0418

      Yep. Just a bit over 94%, according to the best counters. That puts you, appropriately,within the margin of error.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:57 pm |
      • KonaTRM

        If you're referring to athiests, there are more than 6%...it's a flawed data collectiong methodology.

        A portion of those who identify with no religious belief, or are "agnostic" but haven't come out of the Athiest closet, push that number to at least double that figure.

        September 12, 2011 at 7:06 pm |
      • dudley0418

        TomAto, TomAHto.

        September 12, 2011 at 7:09 pm |
      • VonDoom

        Actually, most people are Atheists. The Atheists of "right here right now" just take it one God further. Or do you think that the vast majority of people still worship Zeus along with all the other deities that have existed through time? Statistically speaking, statistics can be difficult.

        September 12, 2011 at 7:16 pm |
      • Deception9000

        Does the mouse actually "know" where the cheese is or just where it thinks it is?

        September 12, 2011 at 8:00 pm |
  51. Rob

    I think that it is possible that evolution is in line with creation. We were created in the image of God? Ok, well, who is to say that evolution wasn't part of the creation process, and that the end result was the human being? People are so closed minded.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:47 pm |
    • Bibletruth

      God said so.

      September 12, 2011 at 7:09 pm |
  52. Jeff

    Come on lets give the Christians a break, they are all brainwashed week in and week out by so-called pastors and are told to respond like this. They can't think or reason for themselves, they just spew out whatever their particular denomination, Christian website or book tells them to. They never look at the scientific evidence but brush it all off as "attacks from Satan", you know the little green man with horns, or wait, the talking snake in the garden; now there is something we can all believe, a snake that talks. There was also a talking donkey, or as the King James says a talking ass.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:47 pm |
  53. cpc65

    Let me finish my banana before I think this out.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:47 pm |
  54. Rob

    People that consider evolutionary theory as a matter of belief have confused religion and science. Religion is the arena where belief is very important; our beliefs are derived from our acceptance of an ideology, theology, or ritual. Beliefs usually function as necessary confirmations that one belongs to a particular theological, or ideological historical group. Science, on the other hand, is the arena where hypotheses are framed, then examined and tested based upon standard acceptable scientific techniques. From here, theories are developed. BTW, theories are not some writer's fiction, but the very best explanation that fits the data at this particular time. There are no beliefs involved in doing science; you either accept an hypothesis or theory or you don't.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:46 pm |
  55. Whiny Jedi

    If god exists, why is he/she such a jerk?

    September 12, 2011 at 6:45 pm |
    • dudley0418

      Maybe you should stop fighting him and he'd stop pushing you around. Clearly, whatever you're doing isn't working out for you. Why not try it?

      September 12, 2011 at 6:56 pm |
      • VonDoom

        Well said, the exact same thing worked for me. I stopped playing tug-of-war with God and he let go as well. I became and Atheist and the world became brighter.

        September 12, 2011 at 7:09 pm |
  56. Joey Boom Boom

    "No man ever believes that the Bible means what it says; he is always convinced that it says what he means."

    September 12, 2011 at 6:45 pm |
  57. Whiny Jedi

    If god exists, then he is at best apathetic to our existence, at worst he hates us. How do you explain all the atrocities done in god's name? And please, do not use the cop-out that god works in mysterious ways.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:44 pm |
    • OpforOpfor

      Jedi if I kill you in God's name, doesnt mean God approved.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:47 pm |
    • dudley0418

      What a ridiculous post. If it isn't happy and benefits you, then God hates you and therefore cannot possibly exist since God has to blow sunshine up your dress all the time so you'll believe. Who benefits from death? Morticians. Are they evil? Are they responsible? Who is responsible for toxic waste? God? What is God to you? Some wishing well where you go to ask for things you want?

      You don't choose to believe in god. God chooses you. You have it alllll wrong.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:47 pm |
      • OpforOpfor

        Sorry dudely but you have it wrong. You do have a choice to believe in God.

        September 12, 2011 at 6:57 pm |
    • Eric

      No where in the entire bible does it ever say God or Jesus are rulers of the world. Satan, Adam and Eve rejected Jehovah's laws and put into question his right to rule and the fact that living by his moral standards is the best way of living. Once this question is thoroughly answered (and it almost is) God's "kingdom will come" and replace all the horrible and corrupt rulers of the world and earth will become a paradise once again.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:56 pm |
      • Pastafarian

        Ok, fine. Now, as the "scientists" here have done, back up your fascinating story with some supporting facts. *sigh*

        September 12, 2011 at 7:27 pm |
  58. dave

    Lots of differing and converging opinions here. Since neither side can prove to the other their convictions, it would be wise to observe and think more and be less of a talking head. We all have our own reasons for what we believe in.

    If you don't buy faith, then move on & stay comfortable in with it. Bashing it serves no purpose(s) and the same goes for the people without faith. I'm a Christian but, I know full well that I'm not going to convince a non believer of my convictions any more than he or she will convince me of theirs. It becomes absolutely moot!.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:44 pm |
    • Not quite...

      Nice point Dave...up until you find that giving irrational dogma the same credibility as empiricism and reason
      results in planes being flown into buildings. Everyone has reasons for what they believe – that in no way means
      all reasons, or beliefs, are equally sound.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:58 pm |
      • Pastafarian

        OMG (no pun intended). Nicely put.

        September 12, 2011 at 7:28 pm |
    • Cass314

      Actually, evolution has a heck of a lot of evidence. That it doesn't convince some people who approach science from the *a priori* position of a religious text is unfortunate, but it doesn't make it any less right. Conflating science and religion as two equal ways of looking at the world is a common but intellectually dishonest tactic. One is based on evidence, is testable, is constantly revised when there is more and better information, actively seeks to improve itself. One is none of those things. It's all well and good to believe what you want to–that's cool, that's your right as a human being. But when approaching questions about the universe, science is a fundamentally different approach than faith, and taking the falsely evenhanded approach of equivalence does a injustice to reality.

      September 12, 2011 at 7:57 pm |
  59. Omnipotent

    Religulous. Watch it.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:43 pm |
    • Pastafarian

      I carry it with me on my thumb drive, just in case! 🙂

      September 12, 2011 at 7:29 pm |
  60. Ronnie

    Everyone who believes in god should ask themselves – where did this idea of god come from? Bible says earth was created 6000 years ago, while we know now for a fact that the earth is around 4 billion years old, the solar system is 5 billion years old and the universe is at least 13 billion years old. If you believe bible got that wrong, then why do you believe in other things? Who wrote the Bible and why should all people believe in a book rather than science. People lie. Maths and Science dont. Evolution is a scientific attempt in describing what we see. God is a fantasy to describe things that some people want to see, an idea that is so deeply implanted in people's minds, that they ignore reality.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:43 pm |
    • OpforOpfor

      Sorry to burst your bubble Ronnie, but the Bible doesnt say God created the Earth 6000 years ago. Remember that Earth was already created, He only organized it 6000 years ago.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:45 pm |
      • dudley0418

        6000 years was a monk's count of days, not taking many things into consideration. It is clearly not a realistic number. I don't think anyone argues that, do they? Nuts, maybe?

        September 12, 2011 at 6:54 pm |
      • Ronnie

        Oh, so now god organized it? Read my last line again.

        September 12, 2011 at 7:27 pm |
    • VonDoom

      There is nothing in the Bible that says how old the Earth is or when it was created. People have just used backwards logic to try and figure this out based on how the interpret the Bible. This argument that the world is only about 6,000 years old only sprang up when geology started to show how old the Earth actually was. These same people who initially argued that the Earth was about 6,000 years old also believed it was hollow. In the end it's trivial babble and nonsense but because some religious leader told you it's true, you throw your money in the hat and don't question.

      September 12, 2011 at 7:07 pm |
    • Eric

      The hebrew word for day does not mean a 24 hour day but rather a period of time. Thousands and thousands of years after the creation of the earth Moises wrote that God "has been" resting in the 7th day meaning it hadn't even ended yet. About 1,500 years later Jesus responded to people criticizing him for working on the 7th day and he responded that he and his father had been and continued to work in that day. We can deduce that the 7th day had still not even ended. The bible NEVER says the earth was created in six 24 hour days.

      September 12, 2011 at 7:28 pm |
  61. Jennifer J

    One of the most basic concepts of evolution is that human and apes share a common ancestor. NOT that humans descended from apes. Some of the commentators would do well to do a little reading.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:43 pm |
    • dudley0418

      Actually, Darwin never mentioned man in On the Origin of Species.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:44 pm |
  62. Retired3

    I have always believed in evolution. Yes, people believe in GOD, but they need someone to pray to that makes sense to them. Someday we will find life on other planets and maybe find out where we came from, maybe even Mars.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:42 pm |
    • citizen

      Put away the tin foil hat

      September 12, 2011 at 6:43 pm |
  63. OpforOpfor

    Evolution = Utopia = Nazi = Mass Death

    September 12, 2011 at 6:42 pm |
    • Observer

      Zero logic.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:44 pm |
      • OpforOpfor

        Think harder.

        September 12, 2011 at 6:45 pm |
    • Stephen Charchuk

      No, it doesn't;

      http://creation.com/refutation-of-new-scientists-evolution-24-myths-and-misconceptions-nazi-darwin-link

      September 12, 2011 at 6:57 pm |
    • Observer

      "Evolution = Utopia = Nazi = Mass Death"

      You're right. It is deeper than it seems.

      "Utopia" means "a heaven".

      Evolution = Heaven = Nazi = Mass Death

      September 12, 2011 at 7:30 pm |
      • Ashrakay

        🙂

        September 12, 2011 at 7:36 pm |
    • Ashrakay

      Are you saying that evolution leads to utopia, perfect world and from that perfect world nazis come into being which then leads to mass destruction?? Evolution is more powerful than I gave it credit for.

      September 12, 2011 at 7:33 pm |
  64. szerin

    Humans did not evolve from apes, they shared a common ancestor from which they diverged 5-8 million years ago.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:42 pm |
  65. Dr Stranglelove

    I am an animal.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:42 pm |
  66. citizen

    I have to laugh when th evolutionists make fun of Christians for having faith when it takes far greater faith to believe in evolution. To accept that something came from nothing is nothing lss than ignorant.
    Here is my challange to evolutionists..... first cause... start there.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:41 pm |
    • Answer

      I dig something up. I place value upon it.

      Whether it is dirt or pieces of the past. Then I equate where it came from. Then I question why.
      There in the cycle of questions comes understand, I explore and reach out for truth. I employ logic and then I come to my conclusion that science is correct.

      Tell me your cycle.

      September 12, 2011 at 7:17 pm |
  67. Omnipotent

    God, the Easter bunny, fire breathing dragons, a flat earth, unicorns. Take your pick. Believing in one means you rely strictly on faith. There's not a shred of evidence any of these exist except of course the Easter Bunny. He leaves chocolate eggs.
    As for evolution and man evolving from/with apes, seems like a pretty good theory to me backed up by more and more evidence as scientists evolve with the evidence that is being found each year. If you choose to believe in a God that's okay as long as you're not willing to kill someone else in the name of that aforementioned deity.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:41 pm |
    • citizen

      First cause please.....
      OOPS.. evolutonists hate when we ask that.
      Now that takes faith.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:42 pm |
      • Answer

        It takes faith to be stupid.

        September 12, 2011 at 7:19 pm |
  68. EuphoriCrest

    The Flying Spaghetti Monster created the original humans in His image; uncooked spaghetti, macaroni, rotini (from where we get curly hair) etc. This is known as the "stick figure" from which we all have evolved. As proof, primitive cave drawings clearly show images of our stick figure ancestors. May you all be touched by His noodly appendage.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:41 pm |
  69. Sassan Darian

    Science cannot disprove a belief in which it doesn't meet the scientific method and is not falsifiable. You cannot also demonstrate your belief in your particular religion is correct and any other religion (whether monotheistic or polytheistic religion) is incorrect. In addition, you cannot disprove my belief in the all-power "Spaghetti Monster". BUT, if something violates the laws of physics and the fact that there are billions of galaxies and trillions of stars and planets – helps put into perspective that we humans are not quite that special.

    "Humans seem compelled to project our own nature onto nature. Man in his arrogance thinks himself a great work worthy of the interposition of a deity."

    September 12, 2011 at 6:39 pm |
    • dudley0418

      Not a year ago it was announced that the Dark Matter theory and all associated theories would have to be revamped if not discarded. As it turned out, there are a lot more stars than science thought, therefore there is more mass, more gravity, and more everything. All of the neutrino theories are out, dark matter, expanding universe (and why) and etc. ALL OUT. GONE. What you were taught in school about this is WRONG. Look it up.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:43 pm |
  70. Arj

    Is it evolution or creation? Is there a middle thing called guided evolution, where evolution is controlled by external forces.

    Let's take an example. Say Animal X does not have eyes. How eyes came to it all of the sudden? It is not possible. So it might have come over a period of time.
    So it was probably few million of billion years for eyes to form. In the mean time they are not useful in any respect. These animals do not have any advantage of these new things called eyes and does not give edge over other animals to make them fittest to survive. You can think of the same way about every organ this way.

    So someone who support evolution can explain this? How eyes could have developed? And what advantage it has by having eyes until it has the ability to see actually?

    I would think God has control over evolution, even if we accept evolution as truth. Frankly I dont know how God created all this. But creation does not make sense for me without God creating it.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:38 pm |
  71. Michael

    I hate to pick on Blake just because you used his quote first, but I think he summed it up well when he said "I don't have enough faith to believe [in evolution]." It is a small faith indeed that cannot withstand demonstrable facts. While the problematic nature of Genesis as a science text, and the related issue of biblical literalism could, and has, filled volumes, I'll confine myself to a couple of thoughts for the moment. I'm equally dismayed when hear scientists or others disparage faith, on the grounds that science does not support the argument for a creator, and when I hear those of faith dismiss science as contradicting what they choose to believe. I find each group equally blind in the opposite eye. Science requires no creator because the purpose of science is to explain the natural world in the terms of the natural world. The supernatural is inherently excluded, no moral judgments are implied. Faith and religion, on the other hand is not about geology, biology, chemistry or any other science. It is about our relationship to the world, one another, and most importantly, The Divine, however you chose to define it. History shows quite well that religious dogmas make for a very poor understanding of the physical world. Evolution is only the current battleground. Other scientific theories once rejected on the basis of religious doctrine include the helio-centric solar system, the vacuum, and extinction. As a community of faith we will all be better served when we choose to use science to inform our faith, rather than blind ourselves to facts that do not fit our beliefs. Those of us who love and appreciate reason, science and technology would be wise to seek the moral guidance of faith, perhaps we might end up with more solutions, and fewer problems.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:38 pm |
  72. szerin

    Fine, I evolved and you didn't. Nuff said.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:38 pm |
  73. jeffroweld

    Why aren't apes still evolving into humans?

    September 12, 2011 at 6:37 pm |
    • KonaTRM

      Please, do a little basic research instead of watching Planet of the Apes.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:39 pm |
    • VonDoom

      Apes and humans have a common ancestor. Neither apes nor humans evolved from one another. The fact that we can and have taught some apes sign language is proof that they can and are evolving; because it's change that causes something to evolve.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:52 pm |
  74. Tom

    My thought is that "intelligent design" is right out. The human spine and all the associated back problems it causes could not have been designed "intelligently".

    September 12, 2011 at 6:37 pm |
    • dudley0418

      Maybe 'intelligent design' doesn't apply to furniture, modern bedding, modern footwear or car seats.

      If 'man' has always had weak backs, how did they survive until today? Stone Age crutches? Very silly post.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:40 pm |
    • Arj

      Was it not your misuse? Is everyone having the same problems?

      September 12, 2011 at 6:42 pm |
  75. andrew

    As a biologist and former creationist who believes reluctantly in evolution, I find I require just as much faith to believe in evolution as creation. Most of those who glibly believe in evolution haven't a clue as to the complexity of the theory. Man from "monkey" which dominates the arguments is the least of my problems. Its trying to envision the evolution of organs as incredibly complex as the human eye, or the kidney, or even the bird feather. Its makes me wonder and no harder for me to believe that God could have evolved over billiions of years in some other galaxy and then can and produced our world.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:37 pm |
  76. Wo Hen Nan Kang

    Ni hao, I am from year 2030. After honorable President Bachmann outlaws science education and declares war on Indiana, great American debt becomes huge and paves the way for new Chinese masters. Clearly, Americans failed to evolve into the 21st century like great motherland of China, so new generation of America is very very bad at math and science. Even Chinese baby learn about evolution and scientific method, so one day he can become doctor or engineer to honor his great-grandfather.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:36 pm |
    • Bibletruth

      lol. I think this was suppose to be funny?

      September 12, 2011 at 9:43 pm |
  77. Richard

    Evoloution is fact.Those that deny it are believers in fairy tales. It still amazes me how many otherwise intellegent people believe in myths, fabrications and untruths.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:36 pm |
  78. Jon

    I don't see what the concern is here. I don't expect someone with no scientific training to understand a scientific discovery any more than I expect someone who is illiterate to understand poetry.

    We in the scientific community often fail at describing our complicated work to those who have not spent decades training themselves to understand it–but that is not our job. Our jobs are to advance science–secondary is to then teach the children.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:36 pm |
    • Arj

      But scientific community sometimes make prejudge on things like God. Evolution is theory, a possibility. But it was not proven however. Even if the evolution is true, it must be a controlled evolution. Otherwise survival of the fittest can not explain in many cases why a new organ like eye can be used for survival until you have fully developed organ, unless you would think that eyes are formed all of the sudden in one generation.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:50 pm |
      • Pastafarian

        Arj: your argument is fatally flawed. Science doesn't care about faith or your personal beliefs. Nor does it care about mine. The facts are the facts and we do not alter data to fit our emotional needs. My thesis ,any years ago did not turn out to be as exciting as I had originally hoped and proposed. Too bad for me! Science doesnt care if I was disappointed and didn't get published in Nature. That's the beauty of science.

        September 12, 2011 at 7:11 pm |
    • Bibletruth

      Yes lets take medicine...lets conference and name this xxxx and that yyyy, etc. and sound real smart about it and not have a clue as to how to treat it and then find out several years later we got it all wrong. Oh and we need to teach the kids. And that boys and girls is the great wonderful evolution of our wisdom, until a few years from now.

      September 12, 2011 at 9:49 pm |
  79. Carl

    When a cherry bomb explodes does the debris escape in a flat plane spiral or does it emit outwards in 360 degrees of freedom?
    Was the maple and oak related? Did God make all things sustainable before you even knew the word?

    September 12, 2011 at 6:35 pm |
    • CharlesD

      It's a little early to be so far into the booze.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:37 pm |
    • Pastafarian

      Carl: what's your point?

      September 12, 2011 at 7:03 pm |
  80. nwatcher

    So by its own admission, CNN will only print articles that assume transubstantiation of species is a proven fact. In which case, according to all rules of debate, there can be no debate between those who believe and practice the religion of evolution and those who believe there were other forces at work to bring us to where we are. Some pretty extreme name calling here. Some of you may be surprised – it you read like you say do – that there are quite a few "really smart scientists" who do not accept, 100% this theory of evolution.

    That being said, why bother to read or post on this site any longer? Such twisted, distorted views on both science and religion do nothing to answer legitimate questions about either. So – thanks for all the name-calling, but I think I'll go find a site that at least acknowledges there is evidence (not published on this site) that raises more questions than than we have answers for. Maybe a civil discourse appears online. Anyone find such a place or are you all too busy ranting and raving about what you think you know, to listen to someone who might know more than you?

    Good night and good grief
    (And may God have mercy on your soul)

    September 12, 2011 at 6:34 pm |
    • KonaTRM

      There is room for both the proven science of evolution and your faith.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:35 pm |
    • VonDoom

      Sorry, but the study of evolution is not a religion any more than the study of math is. Most (if not all) of these "smart scientists" that denounce evolution have really never studied it in any form. These scientists that publish against evolution are backed by huge conservative institutions and get a lot of money to print what these institutions then use as proof for their argument. Yeah, they are smart people but their area of study isn't evolution and just because they can find something to nit-pick without fully listening to those who know evolution explain it doesn't make them experts on denouncing evolution. Most of these institutions are backed by individuals who don't care about evolution or creationism one way or another. All they care about is money, power and social control. Religion is the easiest way to get that control because you are speaking for God and if you throw fear of God into that mix, you gain a lot of power over these same people.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:48 pm |
      • Pastafarian

        Well said. R'amen!

        September 12, 2011 at 6:58 pm |
    • Pastafarian

      Nwatcher: please cite your sources. I know of no "really smart scientists" who question evolution. Bear in mind that a meteorologist may also be a scientist, but that doesn't make him/her an authority on biological sciences.

      September 12, 2011 at 7:02 pm |
  81. KonaTRM

    Politics and religion serve science in no way but to distort and pervert it. Why do so many fools think they know more than scientists because they listen to bloviating talk show hosts?

    September 12, 2011 at 6:34 pm |
    • Pastafarian

      The word "bloviating" really isn't used often enough in blog posts! 🙂 Nicely done.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:59 pm |
  82. Janet

    This may be over simplifying, but if we evolved from apes or some other primate, why are they still around? Why didn't that "transitional" form end when humans began? Plus, why haven't we found any transitional fossels? There should be alot out there if we continually transformed from one thing to another. And yet there isn't any out there. Just seems strange to latch on to something like this and not in creation.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:32 pm |
    • Pastafarian

      Janet, that's just not true. Todays species evolved from a common ancestor. There is a great deal of evidence showing intermediate forms.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:34 pm |
      • dudley0418

        Which of them proved to be "The Missing Link" the Leakeys have been looking for, for about 70 years now; the 'proof' that there is an unbroken line between austraulopithecus (probably spelled it incorrectly) and homo sapiens?

        September 12, 2011 at 6:36 pm |
      • Pastafarian

        Dudley: science is never-ending. We will continue to ask the questions, postualte the theories, and then work to either further support or totally disprove. I am not a paleantologist. I'm a molecular biologist. Studies of related genes, mutations, protein structure/function, etc. all support evolution from a different angle. But doesn't the fact that fossils for an extinct genus of hominids such as austalopithecus exist make you a little curious as to who they were and where they went? I don't remember them mentioned anywhere in the old or new testament.

        September 12, 2011 at 6:56 pm |
    • BeamMeUpScotty

      Ummm...none of the ancestors to humans exist!

      September 12, 2011 at 6:35 pm |
      • BeamMeUpScotty

        Just wanted to clarify:

        none of the ancestors to humans exist anymore ...

        so your whole argument is flawed

        September 12, 2011 at 6:36 pm |
    • KonaTRM

      Pay attention to the news. They found yet another transitional fossil just last week!!!!

      September 12, 2011 at 6:35 pm |
      • dudley0418

        Says whom? It takes years, decades, even centuries for science to prove things like this. Who remembers Piltdown Man?

        September 12, 2011 at 6:38 pm |
      • KonaTRM

        Google Australopithecus sediba.

        September 12, 2011 at 6:41 pm |
    • CharlesD

      Protestants came from Catholicism, yet there are still plenty of Catholics around.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:39 pm |
      • KonaTRM

        Not much progress up the evolutionary ladder, however.

        September 12, 2011 at 6:42 pm |
  83. Capt Yossaian

    Really ought to read the discussion involving evolution when it appears on a FoxNews site story. Talk about alternate species.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:32 pm |
  84. Yeah

    Ancient Aliens. Enough Said.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:32 pm |
    • Randy S

      Great shades of 'Chariots of the Gods'!

      September 12, 2011 at 6:34 pm |
    • BeamMeUpScotty

      Who created the ANCIENT ALIENS?

      More ancient aliens? LOL

      Creationists don't believe in ancient aliens ... only ancient "Gods" ... whatever "God" may be ...

      September 12, 2011 at 6:39 pm |
  85. Pastafarian

    Maybe the simple act of copy/paste can help educate some of you who seem a bit confused by the use of the word theory. In your world, theory is usually defined as an abstract thought or unproved assumption.

    In science, a theory is a mathematical or logical explanation, or a testable model of the manner of interaction of a set of natural phenomena, capable of predicting future occurrences or observations of the same kind, and capable of being tested through experiment or otherwise falsified through empirical observation. It follows from this that for scientists “theory” and “fact” do not necessarily stand in opposition. For example, it is a fact that an apple dropped on earth has been observed to fall towards the center of the planet, and the theories commonly used to describe and explain this behavior are Newton’s theory of universal gravitation and general relativity.

    The defining characteristic of a scientific theory is that it makes falsifiable or testable predictions about things not yet observed. The relevance, and specificity of those predictions determine how (potentially) useful the theory is. A would-be theory which makes no predictions which can be observed is not a useful theory. Predictions which are not sufficiently specific to be tested are similarly not useful. In both cases, the term ‘theory’ is inapplicable.

    In practice a body of descriptions of knowledge is usually only called a theory once it has a minimum empirical basis. That is, it:
    ■is consistent with pre-existing theory to the extent that the pre-existing theory was experimentally verified, though it will often show pre-existing theory to be wrong in an exact sense, and
    ■is supported by many strands of evidence rather than a single foundation, ensuring that it is probably a good approximation, if not totally correct.

    Additionally, a theory is generally only taken seriously if it:

    ■is tentative, correctable and dynamic, in allowing for changes to be made as new data is discovered, rather than asserting certainty, and

    ■is the most parsimonious explanation, sparing in proposed entities or explanations, commonly referred to as passing the Occam’s razor test.

    Let's start with that. Very simple and straighforward. The "theory" of evolution is supported by multiple independent fields as diverse as molecular biology, developmental biology, genetics, behavior, and paleontology. It doesn not depend on the words written in one unsupported book written 1500 years ago.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:31 pm |
    • Randy S

      Very good, but ultimately, over the head of your audience.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:33 pm |
    • dudley0418

      ...cutting and pasting stuff out of search engines ought not to be allowed on discussion boards...

      September 12, 2011 at 6:34 pm |
      • Pastafarian

        Dud: I could have written all of that myself, but really why would I waste that kind of time? The content is perfectly relevant, and clearly defined, though as Randy mentions, it might go over some reader's heads. Though it really shouldn't.

        I did that because I'm so sick of reading comments calling out evolution as being "only a theory". What a bunch of ignorant bulls.hit. Anyway, sorry if my method offended you.

        September 12, 2011 at 6:37 pm |
    • Angel G.

      To simplify what you copy/paste, it's better to say that theory is in essence an unproven fact. No need for fancy wording.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:38 pm |
      • Pastafarian

        Angel: If that were true, people would get it. And they just don't. So I was hoping that maybe a few would see that scientific theories are not just fanciful ideas, but rigorously tested hypotheses. Hey, if one creationist takes the time to read it, it'll be worth it.

        September 12, 2011 at 6:40 pm |
  86. VonDoom

    Humans are animals that create. We do this in a physical and abstract way. Because we do this, this is how we interpret reality. People look at the world and think that it has to be designed only because that is how we look at the world. Until people get over the fact that we are just a big part of this big system and evolution is just a part of explaining it, nothing will change. Believing in evolution is in no way an attempt to discredit anyone's faith. People used to believe the Earth was flat and that the Sun revolved around us but only a lunatic would say that now. People thought that believing the world was a sphere or we revolved around the Sun somehow threatened their faith until they realized that it had nothing to do with it all along. Evolution is the exact same thing so quit freaking out already.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:29 pm |
    • Randy S

      Can I get an another amen brothers!

      September 12, 2011 at 6:31 pm |
      • Randy S

        excuse the type please

        September 12, 2011 at 6:31 pm |
      • Randy S

        and that one too! 🙂

        September 12, 2011 at 6:32 pm |
    • Randell

      I've seen Jesus. He told me to not be afraid and to just have faith. Even old Albert who you all cherish so much said "without god none of my theories makes sense".

      September 12, 2011 at 6:38 pm |
      • Randy S

        Don't forget to take your meds

        September 12, 2011 at 6:47 pm |
  87. Angel G.

    Evolution is just a mix of truth and error. You can believe facts this far but to proceed you have to pay the theory toll.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:28 pm |
    • Randy S

      99% of what we think we know will probably turn out to be wrong in the next century, but I don't expect that it will turn out to be God either.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:30 pm |
    • BeamMeUpScotty

      ALL TRUTHS are proven true only with respect to the NOW.

      Whether these TRUTHS will still be true in the FUTURE cannot be know at the current NOW.

      All we can say about about the FUTURE is this: based on the facts and evidence of the NOW, there is no reason to believe a TRUTH in the NOW will not be true in the FUTURE as well

      EVOLUTION is a TRUTH of the NOW and there is no reasons to believe it will still not be true in the FUTURE.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:43 pm |
      • Angel G.

        "Evolution is a truth in the now" Are you serious? The very word means it's about "evolving" to what many think of is the NOW. Evolution is not a truth. It's a theory. A fairytale theory.

        September 12, 2011 at 8:20 pm |
  88. dudley0418

    Science can never disprove God. It may disprove man but not God. Name a scientific theory that in its present form is total and complete, and without detractors. Just one.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:28 pm |
    • Sassan Darian

      Science cannot disprove a belief in which it doesn't meet the scientific method and is not falsifiable. You cannot also demonstrate your belief in your particular religion is correct and any other religion (whether monotheistic or polytheistic religion) is incorrect. In addition, you cannot disprove my belief in the all-power "Spaghetti Monster". BUT, if something violates the laws of physics and the fact that there are billions of galaxies and trillions of stars and planets – helps put into perspective that we humans are not quite that special. "Humans seem compelled to project our own nature onto nature. Man in his arrogance thinks himself a great work worthy of the interposition of a deity."

      September 12, 2011 at 6:35 pm |
    • closetiguana

      "Name a scientific theory that in its present form is total and complete, and without detractors."
      That's why they are called THEORIES. Laws are different.

      That said, when is the last time you hear any religion use the word theory?

      September 12, 2011 at 6:38 pm |
      • dudley0418

        So then, none of you.

        September 12, 2011 at 6:49 pm |
    • CharlesD

      Chemistry. It is essentially a "closed" science, in that its models and theories provide a complete and accurate description of the field of study.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:44 pm |
      • dudley0418

        Really? Everything that can be known about elemental interactions is known and documented. Huh. I suppose that all the astronomers can now stop looking at the chemical and elemental reactions in stars. Please let them know because they are wasting a lot of money at NASA, JPL and hundreds of other lab around the world: CERN, etc.

        September 12, 2011 at 6:50 pm |
    • BeamMeUpScotty

      To PROVE something first requires a LOGICAL THOUGHT (argument)!

      Can you logically answer this question: WTF is this thingy you label "God"?!

      If you cannot LOGICALLY answer this question, then you do not have a LOGICAL THOUGHT about what this thingy you label "God" is! Hence, your "God" does not exist!

      How can it exist when you don't even know what it is that you are claiming to exist!?

      You cannot prove an ILLOGICAL idea! ILLOGICAL ideas do not exist! Only LOGICAL ideas can exist. Every thing that exists is SELF-CONSISTENCE, hence they can be LOGICALLY explained.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:46 pm |
  89. HenkV

    For anyone who states that whatever is not in the bible does not exist, please send me you laptops, your IPhones, your Visa and Mastercards, your Mercedes and your 401k. Since they don't exist you don't need them. Me, the heathen that I am, can.
    Wow, what were you typing your above comments on? Was the internet mentioned in the bible? Hypocrisy?

    September 12, 2011 at 6:26 pm |
    • Jorge the Alien

      That is by far the dumbest reply ever.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:31 pm |
  90. andurill

    I believe someone or something put us here and that they are a higher power. Religions have different names for this being/entity but I think he's one in the same (I call him/her God). The Bible is man's interpretation of what he believed Gods word should be but the Bible was written by people of flesh and blood and who's to say it's an accurate interpretation? Evolution could fill in many of the missing pieces we've been searching for. Don't stick your heads in the sand and blindly believe there is only one way to figure out our origins.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:25 pm |
    • Sassan Darian

      I salute you for your sanity and reason

      September 12, 2011 at 6:28 pm |
    • Randy S

      Can I get an amen brothers!

      September 12, 2011 at 6:28 pm |
    • VonDoom

      Thank you. Like I stated in another post, evolution is no threat to religion or faith. People thought that the concept of the Earth going around the sun threatened the concept of God until they realized it has nothing to do with it one way or another. Evolution is the same thing. All this debate is pointless.

      The one thing that does scare me is the influx of pseudo-science to debate evolution and replace it with "creationism" or "intelligent design". The scientific community needs to take a stronger stand with this. The education system in this country is already in enough trouble without having to remove something as fundamental as science. It's like saying that my religion doesn't believe in math so we want all the math classes in public school removed.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:37 pm |
      • BeamMeUpScotty

        Please LOGICALLY explain your "God" concept.

        In other words: WTF is this thingy you label "God"?!

        Nobody has ever come up with a LOGICAL EXPLANATION for what this thingy "God" is!

        If you cannot LOGICALLY answer this question, then you do not have a LOGICAL THOUGHT about what this thingy you label "God" is! Hence, your "God" does not exist!

        How can it exist when you don't even know what it is that you are claiming to exist!?

        You cannot prove an ILLOGICAL idea! ILLOGICAL ideas do not exist!

        Only LOGICAL ideas can exist. Every thing that exists is SELF-CONSISTENT, thus they can be LOGICALLY explained.

        EXISTENCE is LOGICAL.

        Let me quote the in-famous Christian apolegetic Dr. William Lane Craig: "If GOD exists, then GOD must be logically explainable."

        September 12, 2011 at 6:51 pm |
    • BeamMeUpScotty

      Can you logically answer this question: WTF is this thingy you label "God"?!

      If you cannot LOGICALLY answer this question, then you do not have a LOGICAL THOUGHT about what this thingy you label "God" is! Hence, your "God" does not exist!

      How can it exist when you don't even know what it is that you are claiming to exist!?

      You cannot prove an ILLOGICAL idea! ILLOGICAL ideas do not exist!

      Only LOGICAL ideas can exist. Every thing that exists is SELF-CONSISTENT, thus they can be LOGICALLY explained.

      EXISTENCE is LOGICAL.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:48 pm |
  91. Be reasonable

    This is the 21st century. The scientific method has been our tool of enlightenment for more than 400 years. Why, for reason's sake, are we still enamored of Bronze and Iron Age nonsense?

    September 12, 2011 at 6:23 pm |
    • Randy S

      Nostalgia?

      September 12, 2011 at 6:25 pm |
  92. Randy S

    What's really funny is all the people putting down scientific theories while typing on their electronic devices founded on nothing but scientific theories. No one can prove any of the theories on why computers function, yet here we are.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:23 pm |
    • closetiguana

      Do you need to know how gravity work in order to believe in it?

      September 12, 2011 at 6:24 pm |
      • Randy S

        Pssst, read closer, I'm agreeing with you...

        September 12, 2011 at 6:27 pm |
    • closetiguana

      Read it again and came to the same conclusion that you were slighting people.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:29 pm |
      • Randy S

        ok, maybe. but they slighted my scientific views first.

        September 12, 2011 at 6:49 pm |
  93. closetiguana

    So if we believe in the bible's account then how did all these different races come from one family (Noah)?

    September 12, 2011 at 6:23 pm |
    • Randy S

      Inbreeding

      September 12, 2011 at 6:24 pm |
      • closetiguana

        hee hee

        September 12, 2011 at 6:25 pm |
      • Jorge the Alien

        If God created us, who created God? One powerful being could not have been created from space dust nor could God be created like magic, since there were no magicians back then.

        September 12, 2011 at 6:26 pm |
    • closetiguana

      I think you are on to something. Maybe the first god was magician, you know, one that can make himself appear out of nothing. I see a new religion and some money to be made.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:33 pm |
      • Jorge the Alien

        Well some religious people bought "Rapture Pet Insurance"..................... Hell ill make my own religion!

        September 12, 2011 at 6:39 pm |
  94. theimmigrant

    if you want to use math and logic, the easiest way to solve a complicated issue is to convert the problem to its simplest form. Now, here is the problem in its simplest form, no matter who how you slice this physical universe to its minutest component, that component cannot explain its own existence it has to come from something somewhere somehow, I have not seen anything that came from nothing unless you believe in magic, I don't. Logical existence demands a source or a cause, theists call it Creator, atheist call it unknown, but ignores/rejects/denies this unknown and I wonder why?
    Is the existence of God is a matter of evidence or a matter of pride as far as atheists are concerned? Only they can answer that.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:22 pm |
    • Observer

      "Logical existence demands a source or a cause, theists call it Creator, atheist call it unknown, but ignores/rejects/denies this unknown and I wonder why?"

      Wrong. Theists are one step behind the atheists. They can't explain where God came from.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:48 pm |
    • BeamMeUpScotty

      @theImmigrant

      You don't get it.

      According to your post, you just proved to yourself that nothing can be known outside of this existence (world).

      Then why do you – the theists – then still claim there something outside of this existence which you label "God".

      You've just contradicted yourself!

      The ideas of "God" simply makes no sense!

      You cannot claim to know what you do not and can not know!

      And this is what RATIONAL people are saying. Your "God" makes no sense, and hence, it has ZERO chances of being TRUE.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:58 pm |
  95. Bibletruth

    99% becomes plain through bible study...the bible explains itself...it does take time though

    September 12, 2011 at 6:22 pm |
    • Hmmm...

      What becomes most clear with careful bible study is that these are the works of fallible men who didn't even know where the sun went at night.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:31 pm |
    • BeamMeUpScotty

      So, in other words: to understand the Bible, one needs to seek counsel from somebody else's – so called *expert* – interpretation of the Bible?!

      We have a word for this: BRAIN-WASHING

      September 12, 2011 at 7:03 pm |
    • DrMark

      Oh it explains things alright. Do you know when its OK to murder innocent children, infants, and pregnant women? Whenever God wants too. He killed with abandon. See Genesis flood, Sodom and Gommorah destruction, killing of all innocent first born of Egypt to teach Pharoah a lesson, etc. As soon as you can defend killing innocent infants in a rational way I'll listen. Not holding my breath. Conversation stopper right there. How much "study" do have to do to realize how ridiculous the book is?

      September 12, 2011 at 7:20 pm |
  96. Doug Cain

    I was created in the image of God, not evolved from over time.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:22 pm |
    • Randy S

      Well good for you. Personally, I was evolved from primordial ooze, and I'm proud of my heritage!

      September 12, 2011 at 6:38 pm |
    • CharlesD

      I'm pretty sure God doesn't wear a wife-beater shirt and sit on the couch in his double-wide drinking Pabst all day long.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:47 pm |
      • Randy S

        lmao

        September 12, 2011 at 6:50 pm |
      • Joey Boom Boom

        HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I'm taking that one with me.... hahahaha! End posts now, nothing tops that.

        September 12, 2011 at 7:00 pm |
    • Observer

      Doug,

      So you were created from dust, too. Finally some agreement, I guess.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:49 pm |
  97. andy666

    You can deny evolution as much as you want, but every day scientists use it in labs to discover and create new medicines, and solve problems. The fact is, evolution happened and still happens, no matter how much you wish it away.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:22 pm |
  98. Jorge the Alien

    Maybe we can keep this debate up and create so many replies that the internet implodes on itself and some self wack religious nut job said "god did it". Or, maybe evolution wanted us to not have the internet and this is mother nature saying get up and go play for 60 mintues fat people!

    September 12, 2011 at 6:21 pm |
  99. dennis

    Saying humans evolved from monkeys could be an insult to the monkey. We think we are more intelligent, but that certainly is debatable. Monkeys don't believe in fairy tales like Adam and Eve.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:21 pm |
    • andy666

      LOL, nice one.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:24 pm |
    • Randell

      wow we also evolved the inability to drink and breath at the same time. We had to give it up so we could talk. You should drink more.

      September 12, 2011 at 6:32 pm |
  100. Sassan Darian

    IF you're going to believe in god – believe in god – but don't be so irrational about it that you no longer have the minute semblance of rationality and reason. I am speaking to those fundamentalists who believe the Earth is less than 10,000 years old and don't understand the fact that evolution is only a theory as in relation to scientific terms in that gravity is a "theory" too. Fossils are beautiful and fantastic and help us fill the missing pieces in the history of our evolution; but now with scientific advancements and the power of genetics and the mapping of our genome and the genome of other species – we can observe the beauty and power of evolution inside the laboratory...it is not something that is in dispute in even 0,00001% of the scientifically literate*. In the western world – this lack of rationality puts a mark of our illiteracy and fundamentalism in contrast to our European brethren – and as a result, we are lacking in science and math literacy in the western world.

    September 12, 2011 at 6:21 pm |
    • Bibletruth

      Nonsense re that percent. My experience is about 25% rabid evolutionists, about 50% evolutionists but with doubts to very serious doubts, and 25% have absolutely no confidence in the theory of evolution. Also, is there any scientific endeavor that requires a knowledge or understanding of evolution ?

      September 12, 2011 at 6:29 pm |
      • Sassan Darian

        Every biological scientific endeavor. Evolution is the key component of biology from microorganisms to Homo sapiens. Evolution is a fact of biological and genetic science. Without it – biological science doesn't exist.

        September 12, 2011 at 6:37 pm |
      • Timothy Lee

        That's laughable – I wish people with your line of crazy reasoning would consider trying to find some sources (real sources) to back up your wild claims. Why is it that reason and rational, scientific thinking is expected to proove its case 100% and solve every single remaining question in order to satisfy you – while you are willing to accept 2000 year old crackpot mythology at face value (including its many obvious errors, inconsistancies and contradictions)?

        September 12, 2011 at 7:19 pm |
      • Answer

        Bible,

        It says it all in your name. Good for you. Being so ignorant to the facts.

        You want a full 100% guarantee instant gratification right? From science itself before you will accept it?
        Good luck. Science proves itself and repeatedly tests it proofs to give us our answer. It is never immediate nor right when you want the answer. You'll have to correspond to the people who are working in their fields to actively study and bring before their research when they have made their discovery. Only til then and when it is peer reviewed.

        Cling on to your dogma, no one cares when religion dies. Religion will never change – it was outdated the moment it came into being. It will die with your ignorance.

        September 12, 2011 at 7:31 pm |
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