Why these blue stars should(n't) exist
A red giant transfers the mass of its outer envelope to a blue star.
October 19th, 2011
01:00 PM ET

Why these blue stars should(n't) exist

Blue stragglers are stars that are observed to be brighter and bluer than we Earthlings would expect, since these characteristics make the stars appear younger than they actually are.

No one's been able to pin down how blue stragglers form. But a group of scientists report a theory in this week's issue of the journal Nature based on new observations.

Most blue stragglers have a companion star; the two form a binary system. But the companion is usually in a wider orbit than what's usually found in binaries. Blue stragglers are hotter than red stars, and are fairly rare.

Aaron Geller and colleagues at Northwestern University observed a cluster of stars that all formed at about the same time - 7 billion years ago - with 21 blue stragglers. The scientists looked at companion stars that are about half the mass of our sun. Blue stragglers tend to be more massive than our sun, on the other hand.

They believe blue stragglers form in a process called mass transfer. This happens when a red giant, a large star that's relatively old, has an outer envelope of material that is no longer gravitationally bound to the star anymore. The red giant transfers mass onto the blue star in the binary system. Material that comes from the red giant forms an accretion disk around the blue star.

"It was a pretty happy star living on its own, with this binary companion, until its companion grew to become a giant and then started dumping all of this mass onto it," Geller said.

This material can be used as fuel that this bluer star can use to burn at its core, which keeps it alive longer, Geller said. Eventually all of the outer layer from the red giant will go to the blue star, turning the red giant into a white dwarf, and the accretion disk around the blue star will go away.

"This bluer star will be blue straggler. It will [be] more massive than it was before, because it's gained all this material, and all this material is allowing it to stay bluer, brighter, longer than it should have," Geller said.

Scientists are observing the final state of this mass transfer process - systems with a blue straggler and white dwarf companion - but have not actually seen the transformation happen.

Geller and colleagues have not discovered any planets orbiting blue stragglers, but NASA's Kepler mission may come up with something in the future, Geller said.

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Filed under: In Space • News
soundoff (375 Responses)
  1. scott312

    all formed at about the same time – 7 billion years ago –

    You are out of your minds.

    June 8, 2013 at 2:55 pm |
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  6. Johnny Cage

    Blue stars exist, god does not. Proof for one, none for the other. The end!

    November 11, 2011 at 4:33 pm |
  7. dudley0415

    Fascinating stuff.

    Each of these does not have to devolve into an argument about the existence of God. To ignore what is observed is ignorant. To realize that what we think of as mysteries God has figured out, is priceless.

    October 25, 2011 at 1:51 am |
  8. Zeoph

    I just watched a Star trek TNG episode about this same thing. There was a star that was feeding off a red giant and every like 200 years it gathers enough matter and then reignites bigger and brighter and of course blue. Was a good visual of what they are talking about in this article.

    October 24, 2011 at 3:42 pm |
  9. Al in Florida

    I love science but the question I have is, if stars and galaxies that are farther away are moving faster, doesn't that just mean that they were moving faster way back in the past? Couldn' t it be that they were moving faster in the past "shortly" after the Big Bang and then slowed down over time?

    October 24, 2011 at 2:18 pm |
  10. harmonynoyes

    this sounds like more made up crap I can't relate to
    and it's probably wrong anyway

    October 24, 2011 at 2:17 am |
    • brat

      dumber and dumber!!!!

      October 24, 2011 at 7:01 pm |
  11. Ken

    The stars are always a great topic for discussion. That said, Big Bang Creationism is on the way out as Plasma Cosmology becomes more sophisticated.

    October 23, 2011 at 2:01 pm |
  12. Not an atheist

    When we were young we use to play outside till late at night. My father who wanted us in the house before the sun sets will never force us to come home but instead told us a story about him and a Philippine legend called a “Tikbalang”. Considering a “Tikbalang” is just a legend, I can honestly say that I have not seen one in person but only in picture .
    He narrated a story about him challenging a “Tikbalang” to a fight to the death and the “Tikbalang” miserably lost. The “ Tikbalang” before he crawled back to his den, according to my father, curse and said that he could never beat my dad but promised to come back to take revenge on his future children. And when the sun sets that is when the “Tikbalang” will come out from his den and hunt us.
    In short, we are always home before the sun sets and if we happen to forget the time he just mention in a well mannered voice to remember the “Tikbalang” and we come running home.
    At the beginning I did not have any reason not to believed the story because it came from my dad, and I respected and believed everything he said. As I aged and got educated, I came to realized that is was just a story concocted by my father to keep us in line. But my sister thought she could use the same story to keep her children disciplined, she kept telling the story to her children over and over to the point where I think she believed that it really happened.
    I can compare my Tikbalang’s story to the church version of hell. Nobody has seen hell but fear that it could be true, and just to play it safe they blindly accept what the church teaches. Others like my sister will gladly tell her children the same story, not that she believed in it, but just to keep the children in line just like us when we were young. Others like me cast doubt on the story but will not challenge my dad because there no harm done.
    I never question the bible nor I believed on the story completely. To me the old testament was a story handed from one generation to another to keep the Jews in line. To me there was no harm done by the old testament so I treated it like any other books, it is just a collection of good stories.
    The same as the new testament, I will never question Jesus or his teachings because I believed that he really existed and It does not harm me to read the new testament.
    There will be Christians who are like my sister, they will teach heaven and hell to their children to keep them disciplined. They will tell the story of Heaven and Hell until they believed on it themselves. Some will believed on them just to play it safe.
    In short I with treat the Bible stories like the father’s “Tikbalang” story, a collection of stories to keep us disciplined.
    HOW IN THE HELL DID AN ARTICLE ABOUT A BLUE STAR ENDED UP AN ARGUMENT BETWEEN ATHEIST AND THEIEST? NEXT TIME I WILL NOT READ THE COMMENTS.

    October 22, 2011 at 4:10 am |
    • Not Intellgent

      I bang big stick against ground with big rock. My sister helps bang big stick with big rocks too. The spirit in big rocks make stick harder and longer. Big rocks get smaller. Big stick gets thinner. Spirit in rocks do these things. There was this one time where the rocks turned into sand. And the sand into dust. That is where clouds come from. See? That makes sense. I make up my own science. My science always works. Always rocks and sticks to have for free. Gifts. Happy. No need to think too much. No need to be too much. No need. Just want. Me want so much rocks and sticks. For free. So excited.

      October 22, 2011 at 5:54 am |
      • Wha????

        Yeah. There's nothing like an intelligent conversation concerning a concept older than writing by mocking someone with no substantiated arguments.

        I can remember when I had my first beer.

        October 24, 2011 at 8:32 am |
  13. Fry8HalR

    So if the material from the red star is gained by the companion star and causes this star to be a young blue star,-

    Then when our sol goes through its red giant phase and sheds off several layers of material, will our giant planets (Jupiter and Saturn) gain enough material to cause them to be a blue star or just a brown dwarf or just a bigger giant gas planet ???

    October 22, 2011 at 12:31 am |
    • harmonynoyes

      tooooop "materialistic"
      don't worry about it, or overthink it

      October 24, 2011 at 2:20 am |
  14. richard

    all these theories on how the world started is their theory on how god made the big bang so loud,they just trying to figure out gods steps in doing what he did to form the whole anchilada, and im not sure but i think we are not suppose to question god or his actions,

    October 20, 2011 at 5:53 pm |
    • Jim

      Why not? Why not question? What really is the problem? So God may have created people....So what!!! We still can question anything that piques our curiosity.

      October 20, 2011 at 9:27 pm |
    • Joseph

      If there's a god (and that's a big "IF"), he gave us the ability and desire to study, learn, and understand the world around us. To question the functions of our universe is to be human. Only an idiotic God would give us such a curious nature and then tell us not to use it.

      October 20, 2011 at 10:06 pm |
    • mickey1313

      anyone who believes in god is foolish. To all thiests I say PROVE IT

      October 20, 2011 at 10:59 pm |
      • Eduardo Santana

        I see it like this Mickey. Once you start understanding why you are living and conscious you will then understand that God is not a person but a very holy force that allows the cosmos to move through its laws of nature. Without God, physics wouldn't exists, without god, your cut on your hand wouldn't mend back together through the intricate works of your cellular bio-structure within. I thank god everyday for these small things that happen to me. One must believe in a higher force in order to treat the earth and heavens with respect and love. That being said, if we were to advance as a civilization 1 million years into the future, would you think we would have mastered all scientific technology by then? Maybe so, Maybe not.... And if so, what else do you have left to live for. And if not, how crazy is it to live in a universe that is unlimited. There is a an amazing godly force that lives among us infinitely in time and space or even in other dimensions we can come to understand.

        October 21, 2011 at 10:04 am |
      • TR in ATL

        Well said, Eduardo. To Mickey, you've missed the whole essence of life. No one can PROVE anything about the origin of existence or God or any of it. You operate on faith that we're all here from random events. Eduardo and I have faith that God created all things and has a special place in heaven for us for eternity. As I just appended in another response... are you 100% sure that there's no God? Come on. If you'll admit there's 1% chance that God exists, wouldn't it make sense to study the options for eternity? In one place, there's fiery torment every second of every day. The other option is peace, joy, excitement, everything good. You've already picked the former. At least give yourself a chance and look at the other option. Find a Bible and read the book of John. God will transform you.

        October 21, 2011 at 11:07 am |
      • Jeff

        Your statement of a holy force and god being in the cosmos and all that sounds pretty but with zero evidence supporting it in any way.

        There is evidence supporting the current theories on universe creation, there is just one key thing. In science we gladly admit when wrong cause we learn new things, where are with religion you never admit a single fallacy..

        Lets look at the church, guessing you guys would fall into christian so lets head over to europe... Church said world was flat, supported on the pillars of god, and that everything in the universe rotated around earth... Fast forward a few years and Galileo shows them how badly wrong they are, and they fight him on it for decades then finally admit "Ok maybe the world is round and rotates around the sun and we are a small small spec in the universe"...

        And that is a key flaw with religion, if you are not willing to admit fallacy then you will be wrong more and more often. Life is a constantly changing thing and we learn things constantly. Hell a couple of scientist at CERN thought they violated the laws of Physics and showed up Einstein... Did they go nuts screaming how great they are? No they asked every scientist on the planet with any clue to review their work, check their numbers and tell them where they went wrong.

        So take your religion and your belief that some supreme creator came through and made this world and throw it where it belongs, right next to those stories about vampires, werewolves, and all the other constructs of human fantasy.

        October 21, 2011 at 6:48 pm |
      • Shattered World

        How do I know that God exists? We're having conversation. If you desire proof, please explain how all the millions of things that happened went exactly right for life on this planet, and only 1 species being intelligent. Bible covers it all if you read it from the point of view that its not a literal way of how things happened, but written so that way it was explained to people of a simplier era back then and able to explain things we learn these days. The Bible supports evolution/big bang if you read between the lines.

        October 21, 2011 at 11:36 pm |
      • Realist

        Religion is a personal concept. It doesn't need to be debated. It doesn't need to be examined. It just is what it is. The more people focus on horoscopes, and trolls living in their stomachs, the less then need to focus on REAL SERIOUS issues in their daily lives. Religion can be a wonderful tool that helps people to overcome the greatest challenges in life, and it can also prohibit and distract those same people's attention long enough away from everything else going on in life. People are very black and white. If it wasn't God, it would be ice cream. Too much ice cream. It is either you love it or hate it. You have to LOVE ice cream. All the time. Otherwise you are a bad person. I'm really very tired of this argument. Just as much as I am tired of people taking offense at science. Science is not anti-religion. And religion is not anti-science. It is PEOPLE who are ANTI INTELLIGENT. PUSHY. IGNORANT. FOOLS. THAT CAN NOT KEEP THEIR BELIEFS TO THEMSELVES. I DON"T CARE WHAT YOU BELIEVE. SHUT UP. GET A LIFE. NOBODY CARES. I CLICKED THIS ARTICLE TO READ ABOUT SCIENCE. OBVIOUSLY. GET A GRIP ALREADY. GROW UP. NOBODY CARES WHAT YOU THINK WHEN THEY COME HERE TO READ ABOUT SCIENCE. TAKE THE DILDO OUT OF YOUR EAR AND LISTEN TO SOMEONE OTHER THAN YOURSELF FOR A CHANGE.

        October 22, 2011 at 6:01 am |
    • Hoov

      Why?? It's amazing how an article about something as mundane as a star can turn into a religious debate...

      October 21, 2011 at 8:48 pm |
      • Tom

        Every single article on this site has some kind of religous debate. From blue stars to is god real to obama controlling the weather, its all the same. And in the laws of science god cant be real beacuse one person cant be so powerful. Religon is just beliefs and my opinion it causes lots of debates and tensions between people.

        November 2, 2011 at 5:22 pm |
    • Troy

      I'm so sorry that you think using a computer is ok, but looking at the stars is not ok. Everything that you use in your everyday life is due to science looking at how the Universe. You should be on your knees thanking the people that make your ability to preach complete garbage an unfortunate reality.

      October 21, 2011 at 11:16 pm |
  15. richard

    to set here and read all these comments on whether there is a god or not and how physics over ride that notion,it may seem like nothing to some but have you ever went to a zoo and seen the birds ,all the differrent colors ,the many colors so brilliant,beautiful shinny colors,and i think gods work,how do the scientist explain that

    October 20, 2011 at 5:48 pm |
    • Joseph

      Easy richard, it's called evolution. I don't believe you can disprove god with science. However, I equally don't believe there is substantial evidence to say for certain he/she/it exists. But do some critical thinking with me here for a moment... why would a god create us, make us in a way to ensure we were curious, independent minded beings, and then banish us to hell if we didn't believe in him? Oh... and offer no definitive proof of his existence? Sounds like either a cruel god or more likely.. scare tactics of people who fear death.

      October 20, 2011 at 10:12 pm |
      • geddy2112

        I look at it this way...No one really knows the answer....that being said, let's assume the Big Bang Theory is used for fact....then, perhaps, someone could explain to me where the two rocks that collided in space came from? Just saying...it all had to start somewhere, somehow...

        October 21, 2011 at 12:34 pm |
    • mickey1313

      if you need an explanation, read Richard Dawkins "Greatest Show on Earth". It demonstrates evilution briliantly.

      October 20, 2011 at 11:01 pm |
    • sumday

      It's called arrogance. Since man is the most intelligent thing we know of on earth we reason that if a 3.5lb brain can't understand it than it was all an accident. evolution is like comparing a model T to a 2011 BMW and saying it just evolved, or comparing a 1960 calculator to today's computer and saying those programs wrote themselves in a successive higher order of complexity. Looking at the model of evolution it's pretty clear there was something that created life and continued to improve on it over time just like we have improved on the car and computer. Imagine in the future computers gaining intelligence and self awareness they would never believe humans actually wrote their computer codes. Instead they would just reason those codes wrote themselves after all a computer code is just 1 & 0, and humans are just A-T-C-G spun around in a spiral ladder called DNA. Not really much difference in a computer program than DNA- both tell it how to run and determine what it will be.

      October 21, 2011 at 11:13 am |
      • Hoov

        LOL the Model T DID evolve into a 2011 BMW, etc. etc. Not that I don't believe we were created by a higher power... Just sayin'...

        October 21, 2011 at 8:54 pm |
      • Troy

        Oh please. Evolution is a fact. It's mechanism's are well known. The fossil record is pretty clear. Read a book!

        October 21, 2011 at 11:20 pm |
      • Mike

        Evolution does not explain creation.

        Evolution does not touch on the subject of creation at all.

        This is where arrogance in the science vs. religion debate is most prominent, sadly.

        October 24, 2011 at 9:59 am |
  16. WhatWhatWhat?

    These "blue" stars are actually yellow-white stars that pissed off Chuck Norris, who's favorite color is blue.

    October 20, 2011 at 5:21 pm |
  17. WDinDallas

    Wow, I wonder which one is more far fetched. Science or Islam. Both are based upon shakey premises.

    Thank God Monsignor Georges Henri Joseph Édouard Lemaître discovered the Big Bang Theory.

    October 20, 2011 at 5:00 pm |
    • mickey1313

      if you truely think that islam and science are on the same "shakey ground" then you have no concept of what evidance and proof really are. All forms of thiesm, and faith based thoughts, are fully stupid. Science takes facts and paints a picture of reality, while thiesm makes up everything, and trys to spin a "mentally pascifing" story, eg it feels good, so it must be true.

      October 20, 2011 at 11:05 pm |
    • Troy

      That is such a huge failure on your part to make that comparison.

      Did Islam invent medicine? Mechanical engineering? Airplanes? Microscopes? The discovery of DNA? Create Nuclear weapons and power? Collide tiny particles together at near the speed of light just to see what happens? Motors, telephones, internet, electricity, cars, boats, submarines, Mars landers, 2 Spacecraft that are currently literally at the edge of our solar system, your telephone, your computer, your video camera, TV, radio, satellites...

      I don't think so. It's pretty clear. Science wins.

      Every time.

      October 21, 2011 at 11:26 pm |
  18. MarylandBill

    This article is, frankly poorly written. Being an amateur astronomer, I understand what Blue Stragglers are, but if I hadn't known going in to this article, I would have been confused. Blue Stragglers are pretty much always in clusters (particularly globular clusters which are generally immensely old). Since a bluer star in the main sequence has a shorter life expectancy than a redder star, you can effectively give the age of the cluster based on the most massive stars that are still on the main sequence in the cluster. When you have a few stars that are bluer (and more massive) than the vast majority of stars in the cluster, there are your blue stragglers.

    October 20, 2011 at 4:09 pm |
  19. Hatch

    Always good to see new Astronomical findings. I wonder how old the Blue light is coming from those stars....could be thousands of years. COOL!!......errr.....HOT!!! (spectroscopically speaking). (Don't worry about the religious zealots. As history has proven over the years, "The Church" always "modifies its position" on the universe. I would loved to have been in the room when with the Pope when scientists indisptuably proved that the Earth was ROUND and NOT at the center of the universe. LOL!!)

    October 20, 2011 at 3:13 pm |
    • MarylandBill

      Gratuitous attacks on the Church? Whats worse is that you show your ignorance of history at the same time. The Earth was shown to be round before the Church even came to be.

      October 20, 2011 at 4:00 pm |
    • Joseph

      There is nothing in the bible suggesting the world isn't round. The bible isn't a geography or astronomy book. And it was actually most scientists of the day who thought the world was flat and later disproven.

      October 20, 2011 at 10:18 pm |
      • Jay Dubb

        Referring to "scientists" from when people thought the world was flat is like referring to the "auto-mechanics" of the 17th century.

        October 21, 2011 at 9:38 am |
    • mickey1313

      what is funny, is in the old testiment, moses is "ascended" to "on high" and he quotes, " I beheld the whole ROUND of the earth". And it was still almost 3000 years before these evil thiests would stop killing scientists for speaking the truth. It is time for science to treat religon as religon has treated science for severl thousand years.

      October 20, 2011 at 11:08 pm |
  20. Physics-lite

    @ Whats Wrong with Everyone?
    Thank you, for the post.
    I would like to keep to just new science findings.

    October 20, 2011 at 3:06 pm |
  21. Whats Wrong with Everyone?

    This started off as an interesting science article and has turned into Religion vs science. Take it to another site. Why is the religious side even posting on here..? Did the article mention God? Science people just ignore them. OR just publish a short request for them to go somewhere else (nicely). Don't bait them. Neither side will convince the other of anything.

    October 20, 2011 at 2:40 pm |
    • Andy

      You are so right. It also seems like they all do, except on more interest-specific sites, you know, like science sites where the religious zealots fear to tread, lest they be led astray, or religious sites, which most science-minded people wouldn't even know existed.
      Am I stereotyping?

      October 20, 2011 at 3:06 pm |
      • brian

        Yes you are and you have a limited view and closed mind. Not very scientific I might add.

        October 20, 2011 at 3:46 pm |
    • Joseph

      Probably because atheists and science types like us always do the EXACT SAME THING to every article ever written about religious beliefs. I don't blame them... in fact, I encourage the debate.

      October 20, 2011 at 10:20 pm |
      • mickey1313

        I agree, I alway respond to the thiests, and do not mind them opening there mouths and proveinghow dumb there views are.

        October 20, 2011 at 11:17 pm |
  22. bailoutsos

    'No one's been able to pin down how blue stragglers form' -– Because they can?

    October 20, 2011 at 1:43 pm |
    • Sean

      The Devil to them there to test your faith.

      October 20, 2011 at 2:54 pm |
  23. A. Bell esquire

    What we all seem to forget is that if there is a "God" then anything he does is incomprehendable to human beings. "It is easier to count every sand on this beach than to know the Trinity (Christian God). All i am saying is that its foolish to disbelieve in the supernatural based on any human knowledge. We have not the slightest clue why anything exists. Personally, I look at DNA for my spiritual answers.

    October 20, 2011 at 12:28 pm |
    • MikeD

      Excuse me. We're having a big boys/girls conversation here. Could you go wait outside please? We deal in science and fact, not fairy tale.

      October 20, 2011 at 12:53 pm |
      • Bill

        Mike, you may want to go outside and play. The article says they dont know which is not fact. Theory is never a fact.

        October 20, 2011 at 3:18 pm |
      • mickey1313

        dont wory mike, Bill, is just so dumb, he does not understand the meaning of the word theory, he, like most thiests, think theory is the same thing as guess. He is of course wrong. How the earth moves around the sun is theory. How apples fall from trees is theory. But thiests cannot atack the theories themeslves (due to lack of knowladge), they can only attaqck the scientific method. Lucky for those of us smart enought to know better, there arguments are not based on anything ever.

        October 20, 2011 at 11:21 pm |
      • Troy

        Bill, you might be surprised at how many "theories" made everything you use a possibility. Hope you are enjoying your electronic device that is probably capable of sending and receiving information via waves of light wirelessly to a box that is connected by silicone to your local internet dealer.

        October 21, 2011 at 11:39 pm |
    • gnodges

      "All i am saying is that its foolish to disbelieve in the supernatural based on any human knowledge. We have not the slightest clue why anything exists."

      Sooo, isn't it even more foolish to actually believe in the supernatural, based on any human knowledge?....as you, yourself said "we have not the slightest clue why anything exists"....

      October 20, 2011 at 1:24 pm |
      • Common Sense

        It's just as foolish to believe the physical world exists.

        October 20, 2011 at 1:31 pm |
      • Nonimus

        The physical world makes itself known every morning, at least in my house anyway, whether I want it to or not. :(

        October 20, 2011 at 2:47 pm |
    • Troy

      It's ..... foolish to disbelieve ...... in undetectable things ...... cause .... wait.... what?

      October 21, 2011 at 11:30 pm |
  24. Uncle Owen

    I'd like to know if eventually the white dwarf remnant will eventually begin siphoning material back from its companion and become a nova? Maybe if the orbits decay and they get closer?

    October 20, 2011 at 12:03 pm |
    • Howie

      No, white dwarf is now much less massive than blue star, so cannot reverse the gravitational mass-syphoning effect. If anything, the dwarf is eventually completely absorbed by the blue star.

      October 20, 2011 at 1:56 pm |
  25. Annette

    Attn Editor: missing word error: "..It will BE more massive..."

    October 20, 2011 at 10:30 am |
    • Sophia Dengo

      Nice catch, thank you. It has been corrected.
      – Sophia Dengo, CNN.com

      October 20, 2011 at 11:17 am |
      • skyler

        This material can be used as fuel that this BLUER star ,
        im not sure if this is a typo or not but it made no sense if it was not a typo .

        October 20, 2011 at 12:12 pm |
  26. Willy

    Maybe the blue star came from a large star being hit with a super large object that broke a chunk off of the star.

    October 20, 2011 at 10:11 am |
    • Howard

      Willy, large objects don't collide with and break off chunks of stars. The stars absorb whatever collides with them unless it is another star. When it is another star, the two merge to form a new and more massive stellar object.

      October 20, 2011 at 4:02 pm |
  27. Chris

    This has been known for several decades. The Paradox Star System Beta Persei (Rosh ha-Satan, Al-Gol, Medusa's Head, et. al.) is a blue with red companion. Observation (and doctoral dissertations) decades ago have expounded and explained the solar mass distribution between the two stars. Why CNN would be deem this newsworthy is questioned.

    October 20, 2011 at 9:53 am |
    • Phill

      Because not everyone is as up to date as you are with space news.

      October 20, 2011 at 10:11 am |
      • Physics-lite

        ---------There was a “BIG BANG” When God said;
        –“Let there be Light and let the light ferment and the light
        became fermented”& there was the Heavens and the Earth.
        +++++++++++GOD’s Word!++++++++++
        _________________________________
        _______It is called quantum electrodynamics/or QED_______

        ________Six + “Nobel Winners” describe and illustrate their findings of
        _____________“millions” of particle collisions in the same way.
        ------------------------------------–
        All of the elementary particles divide up into packets of photonic energy
        [light energy ] that Turns [or ferments,] into two or more sub-particles and
        some of the photonic energy [ light energy ] returns [or ferments,] back into
        the original elementary particles.
        _____________________________________________________________________________
        The EM-fields of each particle defines the amount of light particles /or the total energy
        that is within each particle or sub-particle. As the “EM-fields collapse” / or ferments back
        it either elementary particles or other sub-particles.

        __________Atheist, you do know about “Nobel Winning” QED?____________
        ++++++++++++++++++++The Science of Creation!+++++++++++++++++++++++++
        Physics-lite; With the Science of God’s Creation.

        A Blue star is no surprise to me. All throughout the universe there are the two of most extreme energy sources from the highest to the most lowest energies.
        All mass / elements act different to these extreme energies. At extreme low energies the mass / elements magnetize and attract like element.
        At extreme high energies the same mass / elements are stripped of their electrons and become a plasmas state of that mass /element. Yet these to states of mass / elements are attracted to each other.
        Thus we have the makings of an inner magnetic core & outer plasmas core of a star. It is this process of the attraction of the two states of the mass /elements that brings about the contraction of the plasmas state mass / elements into a high-density mass /element of about 1/137th. of its, original mass’ area, this actions forces the six strong force fields of the mass / elements to polarize & propagate out as what we know as Gravitational fields.
        This is why we see that the big gas planets and now the Blue stars
        Come about.

        October 20, 2011 at 11:55 am |
      • Judas Priest

        Physics-lite, how exactly is that supposed to prove the existence of god? You're not making an argument, you're just pasting paragraphs in and then shouting "You see? You see???" Sorry, no, we don't see. The existence of something nifty doesn't instantly prove the existence of a god.

        October 20, 2011 at 1:02 pm |
      • Physics-lite

        @Judas Priest; Quotation
        Physics-lite, how exactly is that supposed to prove the existence of god? You're not making an argument, you're just pasting paragraphs in and then shouting "You see? You see???" Sorry, no, we don't see. The existence of something nifty doesn't instantly prove the existence of a god.
        ---------------------
        Sorry, That you can’t see that as God said in the very first book in the bible. That was written down Long before there was any kind of Science.
        That all of the mass / particles that they smashup into packets of light energy all ferments back into mass.

        October 20, 2011 at 1:37 pm |
      • Right On!

        Yes The bible did exist before science. But then the human race started to learn and think for ourselves and not have to rely on someone else telling us what to think.

        October 20, 2011 at 2:32 pm |
      • Bageldog

        physics-lite, your moniker is well earned, as you have no clue what you're talking about. Mass does not break apart to become light, and light does not smash together to become particles. Your understanding of particle physics is terrible.

        October 20, 2011 at 3:09 pm |
  28. rcd1160

    In the beginning..... oh wait.... there was nothing. Science begins after something has been created from nothing. Yet science still has not been able to create anything from nothing. Religion celebrates God.... a master architect??? Science wants God to disappear from any of their equations in order for their theories to work. Science keeps "discovering and explaining" that which has has already come into existence. The God particle that science seeks in the colliders already has something to work with. If the Big Bang started everything then why have there not been any more just as stars fade and reform.....but they become a part of something that already exist. They don't create any new universes. Since they don't, science is now offering that there are possibly multiple universes. The God story has not changed for thousands of years but every couple of months science offers many new theories because new groups of scientist discover failings with existing theories. The religious cannot present God to the world and science cannot prove that God does not exist until they create something from nothing. Which by the way everything already exist.

    October 20, 2011 at 9:53 am |
    • hippypoet

      you talk about of jive, but wheres the cream filling huh? i see no proof of your statements, at least science has the integrity to admitt to whatever being only a theory and not fact – your BELIEF is nothing but a thought you hold on to like a baby and there special blanky... sceince attempts to prove or even to disprove itself, you just go on believing what some silk covered so called humble man with gold in his pockets tells you. Try listening to the meek of the earth, they have far more to say then any priest or other clergy man. Science tries, religion dictates, which is better, which has proven more things correct over time, which has been the soucre of answers for questions asked from all times...not god, nor any god for that matter.. and its arrogance to think that your god is the only one, the true anything – such arrogance!

      October 20, 2011 at 10:11 am |
    • Nonimus

      "The God story has not changed for thousands of years..."
      Just tell that to the Ancient Romans, Druids, Muslims, Mormons, Lutherans, and Scientologists. And then tell that it to Socrates, Galileo, Tycho Brahe, and Giordano Bruno.

      October 20, 2011 at 10:34 am |
    • SQ1620

      The big Bang didn't create 'someting from nothing'. and matter can never be eliminated, only changed in form. Gravity sucks every thing in until it's compressed into a singularity and can no longer contain itself. the goes supernova, just like a star. on a slightly larger scale. That has been happening for eternity, not the first big bang, not the last. And I can prove that god doesn't exist, but I'm not going to tell you....now prove to me that I'm wrong. Actully prove to the world that ONE shred of truth lyes in any religious book. Other that the fact that in many cultures rape, ritual killings, slavery, murder (in the name of god), subjection of women or other races/tribes/religiouns/etc are all still ok. You can call me a heritic if you will, I call you a lemming.
      What I don't get is how do you seperate the church from reality?

      October 20, 2011 at 10:47 am |
      • Nonimus

        "Gravity sucks every thing in until it's compressed into a singularity and can no longer contain itself. the goes supernova, just like a star. on a slightly larger scale."
        That doesn't sound accurate, to me. Where did you see this?
        I am pro-science, so don't misinterpret me, but I think that particular statement is inaccurate.

        October 20, 2011 at 11:01 am |
      • hippypoet

        i was corrected by Cosmos42, a person who took my as stated very simple answer and expanded it so it was completely true and not just for laymen... i think Cosmos42 is needed for a proper answer here as well. dude knows his/her stuff.

        October 20, 2011 at 11:07 am |
      • j.jim

        Just an honest question...who or what created gravity? I mean, it's a law right? So, who or what made that law? Becuase as far as I know, laws are all created by someone. I mean, the earth tilting at just the right angle to keep us on the ground...why? Other planets are not crashing into us...why? The universe seems very big and complex, so is all of this by chance? There seems to be alot of smart people commenting on here, so answers please.

        October 20, 2011 at 1:25 pm |
      • Common Sense

        " And I can prove that god doesn't exist, but I'm not going to tell you"
        A.) No you can't
        B.) No one believes you anyway
        You cannot prove or disprove anything. Anything at all. You just sound ignorant. Wake up.

        October 20, 2011 at 1:36 pm |
      • Nonimus

        @j.jim,
        Not sure if you being sincere or just trolling, but here goes.
        Laws, as in the laws of nature, physics, and/or the universe are not created by people, just discovered. Newton discovered the law of gravitation first and Einstein refined it with Relativity. I don't understand your question about the tilt of the Earth because that would have little to do with us "staying on" the planet. And planet and objects in the universe run into each other all the time, the Shoemaker-Levy comet(s) hit Jupiter a few years back, even galaxies run into each other (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/15/colliding-galaxies-exclamation-point_n_927407.html), Every crater visible on the moon is due to an impact. There are fewer impacts on Earth these days (last few hundred thousand years, perhaps) because most of the possible large collisions have already happened (think the dinosaur extinction, although not totally due to meteorite) thus clearing the orbital path in which Earth moves, although impacts still do happen and can in the future.

        October 20, 2011 at 2:40 pm |
    • MaybeAgnosticMaybeNot

      When gravity compress something enough it becomes a black hole. Because the time dilation at the event horizon is infinite, anything that will ever enter the black hole would appear inside the black hole all in the same instance. That creates the singularity that "quantum tunnels" outside of our 3d space and creates a big bang on the other side.

      October 20, 2011 at 11:27 am |
      • Nonimus

        What is on the other side of our 3d space?

        I'm no where near educated enough in astrophysics, but my understanding was that black holes will eventually "evaporate" (and I use that term loosely) via Hawking radiation at the event horizon. Something to do with twin virtual particles both inside and outside the event horizon, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

        October 20, 2011 at 11:33 am |
    • gnodges

      And your God was created out of what?....nothing? LOL

      October 20, 2011 at 1:29 pm |
    • Drew

      Feelings mean nothing when it comes to conclusive and recorded proof among everyone. Religion plays to your feelings an you trust it from there. Nothing about it is tangible. Science demands tangible proof that can be captured and interpreted without emotional bias. Facts are facts.

      Religion needs you to "feel" it's true with "faith" and other mental bias that doesn't mean anything to anyone but yourself and perhaps the likeminded group of zealots you hang out with so that your numbers alone convince one another you're thinking clearly. But ultimately you have nothing but stories to go on, not evidence that can be slapped down on a table and be like "there". The Bible is stories, not evidence, not fact, any more than Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, or other complex fiction.

      October 20, 2011 at 2:41 pm |
    • mickey1313

      when you spout thiestic filth, it is your job to do the proving, not the other way around.

      October 20, 2011 at 11:29 pm |
  29. blah9999

    When the red star transfers it's matter to the blue start does it create a purple star?

    October 20, 2011 at 9:51 am |
    • Phill

      No. The easiest explanation is that stars color is based on temperature and (unlike art class) sharing materials between stars increases and decreases temperature but does not "mix colors"

      October 20, 2011 at 10:06 am |
    • Jason

      Ha!

      October 20, 2011 at 10:20 am |
    • BadMonkey

      It's actually a hot indigo from a puse accretion, but I don't want to get too technical here...

      October 20, 2011 at 11:04 am |
  30. Hugo

    To scientists bashing Christians - what about George Washington Carver?
    To Christians bashing scientists - is this some odd form of loving your enemies, your neighbors, etc?

    October 20, 2011 at 9:50 am |
    • AGuest9

      For the religious fanatics, this is nothing new. They used to just attack one another, now they are attacking people who don't believe in a higher power/master architect/whatever. The scientists have learned that they are under increasing attack, especially in the US, partially due to pressure exerted in the courts by extremist religious groups bent on having theology taught in the place of science in America's schools.

      October 20, 2011 at 10:04 am |
  31. ape man

    Please pass me a banana as I read these ridiculous posts by humans. You humans kill our jungles, create wars, hate, and spout religion, while we swing through the trees admiring nature and the universe. We do not care how we got here, we just enjoy living.

    October 20, 2011 at 9:47 am |
    • TR in ATL

      ape man, it really has little to do with 'living'. It's about eternity. Some of us who 'spout religion' care about where you will spend eternity. There's a dark, fiery place full of torment which I'm thankful is not my destination. You sound like you've accepted that as your eternity. I hope that you reconsider. You can learn about a better way, where there's peace and pleasure. Find a Bible and start reading the book of John. God will transform your life and create a place for you in heaven.

      October 20, 2011 at 10:15 am |
      • hippypoet

        do you read anything but the new testiment? how can one base a belief on a man whoes teachings were based on things you don't care to read about... are you simple? And the idea of eternity is a very silly one, matter and energy can not be created nor can they be destoryed... so an afterlife when there are still babies being born is a silly thought. And thats all it is is a thought, an idea, an electric pulse thru the brain forming thoughts in your little closed mind. try reading a different book then a book on pholosophy! maybe one on facts!

        October 20, 2011 at 11:05 am |
      • Judas Priest

        No He won't. Apes and other animals have no souls, therefore are poo on the cosmic sneaker.

        October 20, 2011 at 1:10 pm |
      • gnodges

        Ignorance is bliss, and that's okay. You'll die, and it won't matter anymore......as long as you have a warm fuzzy, and don't have to actually confront reality, right?

        I believe my atoms will disperse and be re-used on Earth for eternity....as for me, I'll be dead, so it won't matter...not worried about Hell (or Santa Claus), and not concerned about death. The earth and THIS life is my heaven, and I'm fine with that.

        October 20, 2011 at 1:43 pm |
      • TR in ATL

        @gnodges... what if you're wrong??? Are you 100% sure that there's no eternity? What if there's 1% chance that there's an eternity where you'll be after you die? I'd at least study the options and make some wise decisions based on the minute chance that God is real. For me, my faith is 100% based on the myriad historical documents that confirm Jesus lived, performed miracles, rose from the dead, and ascended into heaven. Did you ever hear of Socrates, Plato, or Aristotle? Of course you have. Did you know they lived 400 years before Jesus? Do you question whether they ever lived or were fairy tales? Of course not. They didn't cause the disruption that Jesus did. So now unbelievers just say "well Jesus is a fairy tale". Don't be so naive.

        October 21, 2011 at 10:28 am |
      • Tom

        If you know so much about religion then tell me, wheres heaven located in out atmosphere? When we die our organs no longer workso how in the world are we souposed to live again? Sounds like frankinstien to me.

        November 2, 2011 at 5:42 pm |
      • Jeff Lebowski

        Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. No one has yet proved the existence of God. The argument that we exist proves that there is a God is laughable weak. Faith is nothing more than religions reply toward questions that DEMAND evidence. This life is it. Be a good person. Don't let cave man writings be your evidence to an afterlife – that alone is comical. With all of the suffering and unrest in the world TODAY where is God now? And don't reply that it is 'his' will Kentish struggle brings people closer to god....it doesn't, they remain forlorn, hungry, such and in despair.

        November 2, 2011 at 6:07 pm |
  32. dc4sense

    For anyone here not not caught up in childish name calling: What is the spectral type of those Blue stars? Are they classic O/B/A types? If the transfer occurs from Red giants – those did not evolve from blue stars – or they would not be around after 7 Billion yrs. If they were sun-like, and now very old – there could not be equally old blue stars to transfer mass to. It seems that these are not as old as indicated.

    October 20, 2011 at 9:46 am |
    • Andy

      It would appear that the spectral type of the star actually changes over time as it receives material from it's companion star. How they come to be 7 billion years old is a very good question however. Seems there are very few stars (other than red dwarfs and some main-sequence stars) that should even be 7 billion years old...

      As an aside, there's an interesting theory about Blue Stragglers being "astro-engineered"... http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=18173

      October 20, 2011 at 10:07 am |
    • AGuest9

      They likely appear to be O2V.

      October 20, 2011 at 10:08 am |
    • Eyedoc

      Dc, most of these blue stragglers have been observed in globular clusters with old population stars. Globular cluster stars are usually all about the same age so are thought to have been formed about the same time. So the population of each cluster should have stars of equal mass at about the same stage of star evolution (no no, not darwinian evolution, star evolution, sheesh). When you look at the clusters you find these blue stragglers or hot, younger, looking stars (using spectroscopy readings, not easy to do) when all the rest of the stars are older, redder, cooler stars. The question then is how did this "younger", blue star get into this population of oldsters. This is one explanation that fits all the evidence we have.

      October 20, 2011 at 1:46 pm |
  33. Hugo

    @intothemoonbeam, remember George Washington Carver?

    October 20, 2011 at 9:39 am |
    • intothemoonbeam

      Yes, and I also agree that science and religion can exists happily together, however I've seen no evidence of this from the GOP.

      October 20, 2011 at 9:46 am |
      • Hugo

        I would be careful about a stereotype of Republicans. If you said that you saw no evidence of that coming from Michele Bachmann, I'd be right with you. If you said that Rick Perry has horrible advanced math skills, right with you.

        I'm confident there are Republicans who embrace science in this country. My guess is Colin Powell is one.

        October 20, 2011 at 9:56 am |
    • intothemoonbeam

      @Hugo Colin Powell is a good example but he isn't running for president. I am worried about the current GOP candidates, I feel like the only one with a little sense is Ron Paul but he has no chance of winning the GOP nomination in my opinion. Everyone is pissed at Obama because of the economy but I think they are ignoring other important issues, such as scientific and space research and out of the current GOP candidates I don't see much support in that area. Sure not all republicans hate science but the current candidates show no promise in that area.

      October 20, 2011 at 10:02 am |
      • Andy

        To the atheists: Absence of evidence of God is not evidence of absence.
        To the turbo-christians: The universe is over 14 billion years old. Get used to it.
        To those who have turned this article into a political debate: Really???
        On a further note about that, since it is being discussed: Not all GOPers are mindless turbo-christians, although the current lineup is albeit disappointing.
        To Judas Priest: Great music, but all living things have souls. ALL OF THEM. And guess what, they ALL go to Heaven. Just like ALL OF US. Probably even you...
        To everyone: Very interesting and lively. Reminds me of the early flame wars that I got involved in back in 1992 when the internet was much younger. Same stuff, just better (more evolved) graphics.

        October 20, 2011 at 2:57 pm |
  34. intothemoonbeam

    If you love and appreciate science please don't vote for a teabagger when election time comes. Rick Perry is blatantly against science and foolishly denies evolution. Romney claims he is against Stem Cell Research, even though at one time he was for it. Michelle Bachmann's anti-vaccine statements are completely ludicrous. If you think Science and NASA don't get enough funding now, it will get very little or none at all, if either of these nuts are elected.

    October 20, 2011 at 9:38 am |
    • Randy

      Your assumption that denying evolution equals not being scientific is elementary and just plain false. The "theory" of evolution is just that a theory. A theory,by the way that is full of holes, lies and is built on so many mistakes it is laughable.

      October 20, 2011 at 9:49 am |
      • intothemoonbeam

        Creation has many many many more "holes" than evolution. I know you will disagree but it's true.

        October 20, 2011 at 9:54 am |
      • Michael

        I think you misunderstand the meaning of "theory". Relativity is a "theory" but has been shown to be fact time and time again. What about the "theory" of intelligent design?

        October 20, 2011 at 9:59 am |
      • New World

        Randy your comment is full of holes. No, your argument just caused me to change my mind, creationists are correct, life started 6,000 years ago, Humans walked with Dinosaurs… Thanks for setting me straight.

        October 20, 2011 at 10:01 am |
      • Anon

        No, no it isn't. The "Theory" of evolution is the entire chain of events from start to end. From the begining of life on Earth to today. So yeah, that has holes in it because you are talking about a flawless timeline of billions of years.

        However evolution itself, the idea that traits are passed on from parent to offspring, that mutations can occur in populations, that biological fitness is a major factor in a species survival...these things are not theory. They are fact. There really is no more arguing it, we've understood these things are true for decades now.

        To try and propose that evolution is flawed and full of lies is a blatant lie or showing of massive ignorance. It is that sort of thing that needs to stop if we are to progress as a society.

        October 20, 2011 at 10:05 am |
      • DarthWoo

        Is there some school where they teach these clowns the "only a theory" talking point over and over without actually telling them what a theory is, or for that matter how science in general works? Yes, evolution is a theory. Would you like to know what else is a theory? Gravity, Heliocentrism, and literally everything else in human science that makes everything work the way it does. That computer or Internet-enabled device on which you typed that drek? Built based on theories created under the various fields of mechanical and electrical engineering.

        On the other hand, Creationism, being untestable as it is, does not even warrant being called a hypothesis.

        October 20, 2011 at 10:14 am |
      • FactNoMore

        @Michael – Einstein's theory of relativity may have a big black hole in it now that the Large Hadron Collider was able to detect particles that were traveling faster than light...

        October 20, 2011 at 12:27 pm |
      • Fookin' Prawn

        Great, another guy who doesn't know what 'theory' means. C'mon, dude.

        October 20, 2011 at 1:30 pm |
      • gnodges

        Everything in science is a theory, dingle. Creationism, on the other hand, is a STORY.

        October 20, 2011 at 1:36 pm |
      • Me

        @FactNoMore: You do realize that's been figured out, right? No problems with relativity, the error was in the GPS used to calculate the exact locations of the endpoints of the experiment. Because the GPS satellites are themselves subject to relativistic effects, they throw off the measurement by exactly the discrepancy measured.

        October 20, 2011 at 3:11 pm |
    • vbscript2

      Hmmm, being both a scientist and and engineer myself, I can say most of the scientists and, even moreso, engineers that I know are politically conservative. I can also say that R&D spending is about the only thing Obama has cut at all since he's been in office. Nice try, though. Republicans typically tend to provide more R&D funding. Democrats then come along and cancel the programs started by the Republicans when they're between 80 and 100% complete with the R&D stages. The F-22 was already in production when our previous brilliant Congress and President decided to axe it. That makes sense. Spend billions developing a fighter to replace our nearly 40-50-year-old F-15's, then cancel it after it's already in production. Same goes for Constellation. Ares-I was already flight testing when Obama gave it the axe and, in the process, cancelled the entire planned future of U.S. manned spaceflight. If you like science and engineering, by all means, stop voting for Democrats. While they talk a big game about promoting U.S. technological leadership, their actions do the opposite.

      October 20, 2011 at 10:06 am |
      • AGuest9

        Because weapons systems are the "only" thing still Made in the USA. (Yes, I'm aware that I can still buy some socks and shoes made in this country, but certainly little else at a department store.)

        October 20, 2011 at 10:11 am |
      • Nonimus

        Interesting. Do you have sources for the R&D claim? Honestly, I'm interested it it's accurate, because I think R&D is a huge indicator of innovation, but I hadn't heard that claim before.

        October 20, 2011 at 10:54 am |
      • Seraphim0

        I can't speak to the rest, but the F-222 was grossy over budget and had delay upon delay upon delay. What would you have them do? Just keep pouring money into the sinkhole?

        October 20, 2011 at 2:53 pm |
    • Tyler_Tom

      Although i believe in evalution, i disagree that it is a theory. Theories, by definition, predict future occurances. Evalution can't predict how organisms will evolve, just that they will.

      October 20, 2011 at 11:46 am |
      • Judas Priest

        This is an absolutely idiotic statement.
        Evolution does successfully predict that evolution will continue to occur, and describes the mechanisms by which it will do so.
        What YOU think evolution should predict is what will evolve in the future. This is NOT what it will or is required to do.
        Comparison. Meteorology is also a science. We can, to some small degree, predict the weather on a limited scale, and very shortly into the future. We currently cannot predict the weather on a global scale or past the near future except in a very general way.
        The reason why we can't is that weather is extremely complex, with a staggering number of variables. Evolution is similarly complex. We can accurately predict that the human appendix will continue to shrink, for instance, but large-scale predictions like "what will humans evolve into in a million years" are not really possible at the state of the art.
        However this may well change as processing power and information handling capacity increases– because the theory is valid.

        October 20, 2011 at 1:24 pm |
      • gnodges

        you lost me at "evalution".....learn to spell, and I'll read the rest.

        October 20, 2011 at 1:46 pm |
  35. Andy

    Captain America is probably the closest in this discussion to what I believe. God and Science can and do co-exist. If there were no God, there would be no point to any of this. But to suggest that Evolution doesn't exist is to deny things that happen in front of our very eyes. We are barely more than barbarians trying to hammer each other into believing what we "know" to be true, except we really don't know much. But we are learning. As certain as I am that the universe is approximately 14.3 billion years old, I am also certain that when I die I will come to understand everything that I can only conjecture upon now. I believe that God is not only far greater than our current books explain, but infinitely greater than any book CAN explain.
    Much of the symbolism in the bible can be traced back repeatedly to previous cultures, including the crucifix, the great flood, the angels, etc. The Bible is simply the latest (from ancient times, and most popular) interpretation of how everything started, written by men in an age where they did their best to explain the unexplainable with the knowledge and understanding of their time, based upon their culture. This does not negate many of the moral teachings of Jesus Christ, nor does it justify the horrors in the Old Testament.
    There are powers and forces that we cannot see that affect our lives. Science and Religion both confirm this. Someday sane, open minded people from both sides of this issue will accept this. Many already have... might check out the Rosicrucian order... the Posito is quite eye opening, and does not smear, belittle, or crucify religion or science, but places them in context and provides (IMHO) a worthy perspective. Also might read Conversations with God by Neal Donald Walsh...
    God Bless the Scientists...

    October 20, 2011 at 9:38 am |
    • TR in ATL

      Andy, you sound very intelligent and well intending, but you can't have it both ways. The Bible is the inspired Word of God. You don't separate the Old and New Testaments. Jesus Christ was not a moral teacher. He is God.

      Now on to science... I agree that God and science coexist. God created all science. Everything that is studied and learned is already known by God.

      The problem I have is when a scientist claims with certainty that the stars were created 7 billion years ago. I understand that's where some scientific ideas lead you, but in reality that's not science. I'll call it Origins, and we have to start separating Science and Origins. Science is observable and repeatable, awesome in its complexity. Your ideas and theories around Origins are fine, but that's no more than your faith in how this existence may have started. My faith happens to be different than your faith.

      As for science, I love everything about it and hope someday this country will understand we can agree on how majestic science is, honor the scientists who continue to make startling discoveries, but admit we have some major differences on how to explain Origins!

      One last point, my view of Origins is based on my faith in the Bible. Yours may not be. But please admit that your view on Origins is in fact your faith which by definition is your religion.

      re·li·gion   [ri-lij-uhn], noun
      1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe

      October 20, 2011 at 10:02 am |
      • Anon

        Science bases its "Origin religion", as you refer to it, on facts that are verified by other scientists and many other scientists work tirelessly to discredit those facts. When no one can discredit and everyone else can verify....that makes it a functional theory.

        Theories saying a star was born X billion years ago takes into account a multitude of facts that all correspond to a specific date. It isn't some guy reading a book written by sheep hearders or some one interpriting bird sign, they are using actual facts, truths, verifiable evidence.

        Science, is not a religion. Science stops just before the big bang. What came before, we have theory, idea, but large unsupportable and verified, so if anyone admantly believes in it, that'd be religion. However, saying the stars are a certain age based on observable data, no, that isn't religion, that's truth....what we call science.

        October 20, 2011 at 10:13 am |
      • TR in ATL

        Anon, if you can 'prove' all these facts, then we wouldn't be discussing this at all. Your 'facts' are based on your presuppositions. Your 15 billion year old existence is not possible with my presuppositions. My 'facts' are that the earth is roughly 10,000 years old. My facts come from the only man to conquer death and who thousands of other men saw after he was killed and came back to life (not someone roaming the desert). So whether you come with your presuppositions or I come with mine, neither of us has the power to 'prove' anything. That's my point. You have your legion of scientists who claim they can. So what. I have an equally large number who come with my presuppositions.

        As I said before, I hope one day this country will realize that science is an awesome thing that we all can share. It's the poisoning by scientists with their Origins theories (religion) that ruins the outstanding scientific discoveries being made.

        October 20, 2011 at 10:33 am |
      • SQ1620

        Carbon dating...? theres the pudding......and theres the proof! Anyone ever carbon dated a bible?

        October 20, 2011 at 11:00 am |
      • Andy

        Certainly I'll admit that. I also admit that all of my beliefs arise from what I read, have read, and will continue to read, combined with my interpretation of how each of these relate to one another. It is very likely that my beliefs will continue to evolve as they have done so far. If it makes sense to me, it is more likely that I will believe it. Does it mean I'm right? No. I'm surely not right about a great many things I believe, but that does not mean I do not continue to seek the truth.

        Whether the Bible is a work of 66 books, written by 40 authors inspired by God, that again goes back to belief. If the Bible reflects in your heart what you "know" to be true, then believe it. I simply question everything that I do not "know" to be true until I am either satisfied in my own mind, or decide that it ultimately indeed reverts to belief. Do I believe everything in the Bible? No. Is the Bible worthy of reading again and again? Absolutely. I believe many great truths are written there. Especially if it's in the red letters.

        I also believe many great truths can be found in Nature Magazine. Life is about learning the quest for truth. I am greatly relieved that I am not one that already knows the Truth. How boring that would be.

        October 20, 2011 at 10:37 am |
      • Anon

        "Cause I heard from my mom..." does not make it a fact or a truth. Just because you have a book, that makes claims doesn't make them facts. You say Jesus came back after death. However there are almost no historical facts showing he ever even existed to begin with and most of those are considered to be fakes. So you have a book that is its own proof versus dating via light, radiation, radio waves, space noise, etc etc etc.

        Science deals with things that are measured, things that can be verified. When science says X, you know it's because A-W were all proven to be false and X has more evidence than Y. Thus X is the dominant theory. A person who may or may not of existed and a book written by superstitious ancients do not equate to verifiable evidence.

        I can provide numerious peices of evidence to show stars are over 10,000 years old:
        http://www.universetoday.com/10649/new-method-pinpoints-the-age-of-the-milky-way/
        http://www.astronomycafe.net/qadir/q1591.html
        http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=how-do-scientists-determi

        I can do this, because, like I said above, science is verifiable by everyone because it is measureable truth. Can you prove me one single peice of evidence that the universe is ~10,000 that isn't a self fulfilling cycle of:
        Evidence is true because bible says so -> bible is true because this evidence says so -> etc

        October 20, 2011 at 12:10 pm |
      • gnodges

        So, science is great until it tries to look at origins, got it.....tell you what, why don't you hop on your jesus horse (dinosaur), and ride on into the sunset?

        October 20, 2011 at 2:08 pm |
      • withoutgod

        TR in ATL:

        The person who you alleged conquered death and whose resurrected self was witnessed by thousands? That Jesus guy? Yeah, he also told those people that his second coming would be before they died. Did that happen? No. Therefore, Jesus is a false Prophet. Therefore he is not the son of God come to deliver God's truth to the world. Therefore, any argument you make based on this mystical assumption is not valid.

        October 21, 2011 at 6:00 am |
      • TR in ATL

        You're incorrect about what Jesus said of his second coming. Here's what my Bible says about when Jesus will return. Matthew 24:
        36 “No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son (Jesus), but only the Father (God). 42 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man (Jesus) will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

        We all need to actually read the Bible. God will use it to transform your life.

        October 21, 2011 at 10:17 am |
    • AGuest9

      Science is not "a set of beliefs". True science is quantifiable data, produced by experimental evidence, based upon solid theory. Simply because a quantity cannot be measured, does not mean it isn't present. A theory isn't "just" a theory.

      Until the 1980's, atoms hadn't been imaged. I am guessing that until that point, many of "the faithful" didn't believe in atoms, either.

      October 20, 2011 at 10:16 am |
      • TR in ATL

        Um, well, sort of. Just show me the experimental evidence of that '7 billion year old star' experiment you conducted.

        October 20, 2011 at 10:38 am |
      • Nonimus

        @TR in ATL,
        I'm confused, if the Universe is 10K+/- years old, then how are we seeing light from stars millions and billions of light-years away?

        October 20, 2011 at 11:18 am |
      • Judas Priest

        @Nominus – God put it there. Same as always. "It's turtles all the way down!"

        October 20, 2011 at 1:27 pm |
  36. BadMonkey

    So why does the outer layer lose it's gravitational binding to the red giant? If the red giant has more mass than the orbiting partner how can it lose mass to it? Wouldn't the red giant have more gravitational force, and actually suck mass from the smaller star? Is this reversability? Is the arrow of time pointing backward? Is entropy moving from hight to low? WTF???

    October 20, 2011 at 9:26 am |
    • hippypoet

      answer – when a giant gets really old and uses nearly all its fuel its spin slows, causing a lessening in gravitational pull. The star is made up of layers that are held together by the G force, and when it is weakened things get pulled to the nearest G force that is stronger.

      thats a very very simple way to explain what would be a very long paragraph, so please bare with and ride the wave.

      October 20, 2011 at 9:30 am |
      • Cosmos42

        No, that's not correct. When a star is nearing the end of its lifetime, its core will run out of hydrogen fuel and contract under the pressure of gravity. This contraction causes the core to heat up. Eventually the core becomes hot enough to begin fusing helium, which produces an immense amount of radiation that pushes the outer layers of the star outward. This is when the star becomes a red giant. I the star is in a binary system already and its partner is close enough, the outer layers can get close enough to the partner that they begin accretion around it.

        October 20, 2011 at 9:39 am |
      • BadMonkey

        ... Good answer Cosmos42.

        October 20, 2011 at 10:40 am |
      • Nonimus

        ditto, Good answer Cosmos42.
        And good question BadMonkey, I was curious about that too.

        October 20, 2011 at 11:22 am |
    • Judas Priest

      God did it.
      .
      .
      .
      .
      .
      .
      .
      Just kidding.

      October 20, 2011 at 1:28 pm |
      • Nonimus

        Agreed. He must have been 'just kidding'.

        October 20, 2011 at 2:43 pm |
  37. hippypoet

    not the best written article but its been a while since i found one of cnn.'s science articles to be interesting and informative... studing stars was something i used to love to do, this may just be the kick i need to get back in, and i'm sure my kids will love making the solar system with daddy. :)

    October 20, 2011 at 9:20 am |
    • ubtoby

      Diddos!

      October 20, 2011 at 9:44 am |
  38. Tman

    Trolls and hateful posters are full of evil. Anonymous haters hiding in their little rooms spew their foul smell throughout the internet. They would never have courage to say these things to someone's face. Don't listen or respond to them. Cut off their food and they die. For a more peaceful world, I vote we do away with ALL of these useless article comments sections. Blah blah blah, I hate you, you hate me....blah blah blah. Ridiculous.

    October 20, 2011 at 9:18 am |
    • Sean

      Isn’t that exactly what you’re doing only on a prolific scale? What a hypocrite.

      October 20, 2011 at 9:28 am |
    • UniversalMan

      Please don't judge them – for that is how u will be judged – instead ask for blessings for them, forgive them and turn ur gaze back onto urself and ur own heart and u in turn will have peace (soul) – may God bless you as well friend ...

      October 20, 2011 at 9:40 am |
    • Phil

      Yes, there are a lot of religious trolls out there...and atheist ones as well.

      In reference to saying something to someones face...for example "there is no god" then I have no problem doing that. Why does that take courage?

      October 20, 2011 at 10:56 am |
    • Tom

      I agree with you. Steve Jobs creates this wonderful tecnology and some people use it to post nonsence and abuse it. What a shame.

      November 2, 2011 at 5:54 pm |
  39. Phil

    I'm going to post this again in reply to 'Steve' who apparently thinks evolution is a sham...

    *Steve wrote; If we evolved from monkeys and apes, why are they still monkeys and apes, if evolution was real then there would be no monkeys or apes, what an id-iot."

    I've waited for a moron like you to show up and ask this question.

    If England colonized America, why do we still have England? Get my point? We split off into a different species and evolved from there.

    Also, Steve, why do some viruses become resistant to antibiotic treatment? Because they mutate...that's considered evolving too.

    "Lord, please guide the hands of the surgeon" - why? Was the doctors 8 to 10 years of medical school not enough and now he needs some assistance? Get real, Steve. The god you believe in isn't real...it never was. You were told, probably from a very young age that "you'll burn in hell if you don't believe"...and that probably scared you into believing. Did they tell you in church how cruel your god actually is? Did they tell you that god endorses slavery, rape, incest, murder, torture...did you read about how Lot gave his virgin daughter up to be raped by men to protect two "angels" he had in his home...because that's what god recommended. Don't tell me I'm taking it out of context. Don't tell me "it was a different time". Don't tell me "that's the old testament". Are the rules suddenly different for god? I don't think so.

    If you knew nothing about god...never heard of him..... Would you start believing when people told you this as an adult without providing any proof? Probably not. You'd think they were all crazy.

    October 20, 2011 at 9:00 am |
    • Mike

      Well said, Phil. I love when people misrepresent science to support their claims. Christians are notorious for doing this.

      October 20, 2011 at 9:11 am |
    • Charles

      Phil,

      Be careful when you throw stones. There is not a single current evolutionary biologist, to my knowledge, that believes that humans evolved from any species of ape that is in existance today, and please don't even talk about Monkeys. When you make this claim you sounds like the...how did you put it, 'id-iot'.
      Humans evolved from a now extinct species that evolved from other extinct species and so on...if you go back far enough you can find a common ancestor that apes and humans evolved from, but humans most definately did not evolve from any species of ape that is in existance, and frankly, it's highly unlikely that any common ancestor would be classified as an ape were it in existance today. Apes are more highly evolved than the common ancestor.
      Monkeys are an offshoot that is so far distant that I am not sure why you even bring them up except for ignorance.
      Your brand of ignorance is the secular version of Steves. Please read a book on the subject. You show as little understanding of Evolutionary Theory than Steve shows of apologetics. (And that is saying something.)

      October 20, 2011 at 9:17 am |
      • hippypoet

        your an idiot... first yes there are evolutionary biologists...and second why not ask about monkeys being they have little to do with us, it was the greater apes that we are spawn from. And no sh!t that there are no living apes today that we directly decended from. we are 6 million years in the making – no creature exists the same now as it may have then! And apes are more evolved then monkeys so how exactly is a monkey an offshoot of an ape...ITS NOT, monkeys are where the ape came from and so on and so forth! study wolves, when you get to the grey wolf see what happens!

        October 20, 2011 at 9:25 am |
      • eric

        To Steve, there is no way to talk to these people. I applaud you for trying. The Bible says that the ignorant will refuse to listen to reason and will reject the Lord. You tried. Let's move on. It's ok if they want to believe that fossils are millions of years old because the rock they are in is considered to be millions of years old because of the fossils that are found in them are millions of years old. It is circular reasoning that has no fact embedded within. He says that man created God and so God created man when all his "science" is manmade. Tthere was no proof, no recorded evidence as the Bible is and a timetable that constantly changes in order to get a paper published. that's why evolution is still called "The Theory of Evolution", because there will never be proof. They will try and demean you with their degrees and there titles but they all believe in the same circumstantial evidence because they are searching for what, "The True reason we are here." You and I both know Jesus is the way, the Truth and the Light."

        October 20, 2011 at 9:39 am |
      • Rob

        Hippypoet, I believe many creatures have remained pretty much the same over the past six million years, including many turtles, crustaceans and jellyfish. ..just saying.

        October 20, 2011 at 9:48 am |
      • Sean

        Charles, you're ABSOLUTLY correct, we didn't descend from monkeys. We descended fro primitive hominids. Evolution occurs every day on the planet as we speak. Dog breeding is forced evolution. Look at the frog. Put a group of male frog in a tank and within a year or two, some of them will turn female. An evolutionary trait they developed to progress their species. Or the snakehead fish, which is developing lungs.
        Now look at the backwoods country areas where inbreeding occurs rampantly. If Adam n Eve spawned civilization we must be their retarded offspring. Not a “THEORY” I’m willing to believe.

        October 20, 2011 at 10:25 am |
      • Phil

        @ eric
        "To Steve, there is no way to talk to these people. I applaud you for trying. The Bible says that the ignorant will refuse to listen to reason and will reject the Lord."

        I have a personal relationship with reality.

        Of course the bible SAYS only the ignorant will refuse to listen. It's a great sales pitch.

        The bible is not fact. The bible is a book of fiction. Get it through your thick head already.

        I'll say it again. If you had NO knowledge of god to this day, and some asshat came along and tried to convince you that there is some almighty magical sky daddy watching over us...you'd think the guy was a lunatic.

        The story of god worked long ago when the population wasn't as dense and when people didn't have access to technology to look up information like we do now. The story of god works through fear... Getting people to agree with you by using fear is considered abuse.

        My Flying Spaghetti Monster is real, but you can't tell me otherwise because you're wrong...but I can't prove it to you. That's how stupid belief in god actually is.

        October 20, 2011 at 11:06 am |
    • @phil

      Take a chill pill... He is entitled to his own beliefs and you are with your equally 'bogus' beliefs. You can become a Christian a lot easier then you can become a scientist... you hear what someone else tells you and believe it. You are no different then Steve. Although I do tend to believe that Steve is right and you are wrong - once again my own opinion.

      October 20, 2011 at 9:18 am |
      • Displeased

        "you hear what someone else tells you and believe it" by @phil

        Wrong, rational people think for themselves.

        "You can become a Christian a lot easier then you can become a scientist" by @phil

        I find this statement very odd too. Are you suggesting only scientists are atheists?

        October 20, 2011 at 9:36 am |
      • Hugo

        What's your opinion on how the transistors in your computer work?

        October 20, 2011 at 9:41 am |
      • Cosmos42

        Christians are entitled to their own beliefs, but not their own facts.

        October 20, 2011 at 9:42 am |
      • Phil

        @ Displeased

        A vast majority of scientists are atheist.

        October 20, 2011 at 11:00 am |
    • Sean

      I think I love you, man. Well said.

      October 20, 2011 at 9:19 am |
    • Sean

      SLAP!!!!

      That was the sound of me High Fiving you!

      October 20, 2011 at 9:30 am |
    • Hugo

      Phil, I'd like you to read Dr. Zull's textbook, The Art of Changing the Brain. The book is about learning theory as it relates to the brain. I know this request appears to come from "left field" but I think you are missing concepts that I won't be able to explain to you here. (He wrote an entire textbook instead of a couple paragraphs for good reason.) The concepts are not about theology. They are about science (of the human brain). Hopefully as you defend science, you also have the desire to learn more science that many scientists have.

      Even if you don't read the textbook, please read about Dr. Zull so that you'll realize he's a real scientist. At least if you research Dr. Zull, you'll be able to make a partially informed decision.

      October 20, 2011 at 9:31 am |
    • Domo

      You guys are all wrong... We came from aliens...

      October 20, 2011 at 9:50 am |
    • JB Cal

      Don't tell me this, don't tell me that. If you don't want to hear the explanation don't ask the questions.

      October 20, 2011 at 9:54 am |
    • S. Brown

      Just a note Phil: Viri and bacteria are not the same, which means that a virus will never be affected by antibiotic treatments-not because of evolution, but because it is not the target. An antiviral targets a virus, and an antibiotic targets a bacterium. Please do your research next time.

      October 20, 2011 at 10:25 am |
  40. Realist

    Humans are going nowhere... sept where the Dinosaurs went!

    LMAO, this may as well be the Planet of the Apes...

    at least Apes can live in Nature without exterminating it!

    Humans are not built for this planet, without cars, clothes, wal-marts and credit cards
    the average human would be dead in a week from the weather exposure and starvation!
    the Apes would be laughing at the patheticly weak humanoids... hehe

    October 20, 2011 at 8:51 am |
    • Chris Honry

      No I think it's Gorillas in the Mist !

      October 20, 2011 at 8:52 am |
    • Dennis F

      Let's think about this for a minute....

      Cars have existed for a little over 100 years. Walmarts have existed for less than half that time. The first Credit Cards showed up sometime between the advent of cars and the advent of Walmart. Modern Humans have been around for thousands of years. In fact...they invented clothes quite a while ago, and are still the only resident of the Earth that puts on their own clothes.

      I think 'Realist' may be smoking too much cheap weed.

      October 20, 2011 at 9:07 am |
      • Nonimus

        "...still the only resident of the Earth that puts on their own clothes."
        Which residents put on other resident's clothes?

        (sorry, couldn't resist)

        October 20, 2011 at 3:01 pm |
  41. Rudix

    Our knowladge is so little and sciance want us to think that they know so much.....lets get real...we know about the universe nothing or mabe ...a sand grain on the beach...thanks , all at wwwTheDimensionMachineDOTcom

    October 20, 2011 at 8:50 am |
    • Tonelok

      @Rudix
      What's wrong with not knowing the answers? I love the hunt for answers and would rather find them out for myself than have someone tell me.

      October 20, 2011 at 9:13 am |
    • The Jackdaw

      Yes, science is alive and has a will of its own! It wants to ruin humanity! You better go back to church dip$h1t.

      October 20, 2011 at 9:17 am |
      • Judas Priest

        What, no one's allowed to ruin humanity except for you?

        October 20, 2011 at 1:33 pm |
    • What?

      Exactly what point are you making? Science learns something nearly everyday. Who told you that science "knows so much"? Making up nonsense and showing it's fallacy is called a strawman argument.

      October 20, 2011 at 9:27 am |
    • Hugo

      Rudix if you actually believe that science wants us to think they know so much, you haven't adequately learned sufficient science upon which to form a sound opinion.

      Good scientists understand that they know very little. It's just the opposite of what you claimed. Thus, you don't know what you are talking about. Please take some science classes and learn. Please.

      Some English classes wouldn't hurt.

      October 20, 2011 at 9:35 am |
  42. Chris Honry

    It's so funny how these scientists get a few data points and come up with a wild guess and that's their reality for centuries or decades until they get another data point and reform another wild arse guess. Like the current "truth" that the universe is rushing apart at faster than the speed of light, because of PERCEIVED red-shift : what a load of BS. They took one thing found by Edwin Hubble and decided it's all rushing apart faster than light. You know we'll find out later that is totally wrong, just like oh, oops, world is not flat, oops again, world is not center of universe or even solar system. Science: oops, oops, oops, there is no God, oops oops oops...

    October 20, 2011 at 8:47 am |
    • mattski

      That's how science works, dude.

      October 20, 2011 at 8:56 am |
    • chris

      Its called the scientific method, and it has a pretty decent track record.

      October 20, 2011 at 8:58 am |
    • Kdawgg

      I'll take science over religion

      October 20, 2011 at 9:01 am |
    • Phil

      At least science has the balls to admit when it's wrong and update the information. Unlike the church that says "the world is flat and everything revolves around us". Say anything different and you're an outcast.

      Science. It works, bitches.

      October 20, 2011 at 9:02 am |
    • Cedar Rapids

      That you think scientists make wild guesses shows what an idiot you are.

      And It was science that showed the world was not flat, it was science that showed the world was not the centre of the universe, despite the church's insistence that it was.

      October 20, 2011 at 9:11 am |
      • Matthew

        Isa 40:22 stated "the circle of the Earth" thousands of years before any scientist found it to be true. And Just becuase the "church leaders" tell lies to threaten and harness their flock, that is mans problem. there is nothing wrong with what the bible really teached. The Bible does not claim to be a science textbook, but when it does speak of nature and the natural world, it is acurate.

        October 20, 2011 at 9:37 am |
      • Chris R

        Actually, the Earth was proven to be a sphere around 2,300 years ago by Eratosthenes. Of course, anyone with a straight stick and a steady hamd could show the horizon has a curve to it. Or if they saw that ships slowly sunk over the horizon. Or that as you walked toward a mountain the peak appears first. Etc etc etc... Observation would have shown the earth was a sphere even before it was proven via geometry by Eratosthenes. So during the time the Bible was being written most any educated person would have know the Earth was round.

        October 20, 2011 at 9:54 am |
      • Nonimus

        @Mathew,
        As far as I am aware, a circle is still flat. Although, it doesn't have corners, as it says in Isaiah and Revelations.

        October 20, 2011 at 3:12 pm |
    • Jesse

      dont forget science also brought us global warming, nukes, guns, and lots of different ways to kill people.

      October 20, 2011 at 9:23 am |
      • yep

        Very true. Science has created the ability to easily kill other humans. Shame on them. But you also should consider the church's role in the death of humans over the centuries. There has been more blood shed in the name of god than can be counted.

        October 20, 2011 at 10:16 am |
    • intothemoonbeam

      Remember those scientists 400 years ago who said the Earth was round and wasn't the center of the universe? Well they were all right and they got executed by the church. Science > Religion.

      October 20, 2011 at 9:32 am |
    • Hugo

      Chris, how do you think the transistors inside your computer work? Hint: quantum mechanics. That's not the entire answer.

      October 20, 2011 at 9:38 am |
    • Lewis

      Yes, it's called the scientific method. It's the very best thing we have for understanding the world and the Universe around us. It's what we use to seek the actual truth. Theories and ideas can shift in favor of the data. Our understanding of the world can change. Can religion change?

      October 20, 2011 at 9:58 am |
    • rmpkatz

      "world is not center of universe or even solar system. Science: oops, oops, oops" If you look it up it was actually the church that said that the earth is the center of the universe and the solar system so before you start bashing science get your facts straight.

      October 20, 2011 at 1:25 pm |
    • gnodges

      So, what you are saying is science is willing to adjust it's reality when new data proves the old theories wrong? And that's an argument against science?

      Whereas, religion already KNOWS the answer, despite the "data points" that come along?

      You've just convinced me that science is the way to go......thanks, buddy!

      October 20, 2011 at 2:02 pm |
  43. not so liberal anymore

    Everything the human race thinks it knows is a tiny spec of what the universe is and has to offer. When I read about scientists being suprised be results I have to scratch my head. Isn't that the point? If you think you have answers start looking over your shoulder. If you reach certanity you are totally screwed.

    October 20, 2011 at 8:33 am |
    • Ykcyc

      Very true. In reality, people don't know anything. They only think that they do. As soon as people think that they know, it really means that they don't.

      October 20, 2011 at 8:53 am |
      • Brad

        I love how all you people diss science, yet everything you use was created through science, even a simple seasaw. Most of you people diss scientist probably have very little education, and know very little about your own backyard. That is why, when I read post about people bashing these guys and girls who have spent their life investigating facts, I just roll my eyes. You people haven't lifted one finger to find facts, most haven't even lifted a single finger to study their own bible, what a bunch of morons.

        October 20, 2011 at 9:19 am |
  44. The Professor

    I thoroughly enjoyed most of the banter on this thread, and indeed do support this theory of the unexpected aspects of these blue giants in our cosmos. While I was reading, my cat Riley was playing with String Theory too.

    October 20, 2011 at 7:50 am |
    • Physics-lite

      I just love when they come up with new observations that blows their mines. I will defferently look in to this.

      October 20, 2011 at 8:06 am |
      • JimboJones

        Just please promise us you will never return here to write about what you "defferently" look into. Hope your mines don't get blown.

        October 20, 2011 at 8:36 am |
    • Physics-lite

      A Blue star is no surprise to me. All throughout the universe there are the two of most extreme energy sources from the highest to the most lowest energies.
      All mass / elements act different to these extreme energies. At extreme low energies the mass / elements magnetize and attract like element.
      At extreme high energies the same mass / elements are stripped of their electrons and become a plasmas state of that mass /element. Yet these to states of mass / elements are attracted to each other.
      Thus we have the makings of an inner magnetic core & outer plasmas core of a star. It is this process of the attraction of the two states of the mass /elements that brings about the contraction of the plasmas state mass / elements into a high-density mass /element of about 1/137th. this actions forces the six strong force fields of the mass / elements to polarize & propagate out as what we know as Gravitational fields.
      This is why we see that the big gas planets and now the Blue stars
      Come about.

      October 20, 2011 at 9:44 am |
      • Eyedoc

        Uhm... what? O.o.

        October 21, 2011 at 4:09 pm |
  45. joe

    Lucky Charms now has blue and red stars, they're magically delicious.

    October 20, 2011 at 7:44 am |
    • Phil

      WIsh they just sold the box with the yummy marshmallows only...I can't stand the cardboard flavored bits...

      October 20, 2011 at 9:07 am |
  46. Massive Marbles

    This primarily means that even our greatest scientific minds still look up into the sky with the bewilderment similar to that of a child. We as a people truly have no idea about the physics of the universe or the dark secrets it holds. What's most important now is unifying all nations to be on the same page. We need to calculate our resources, be at peace with one another and share knowledge to advance our species and heal our planet.

    October 20, 2011 at 7:19 am |
    • Dan

      Get rid of Islam and this just might happen.

      October 20, 2011 at 7:32 am |
      • peoplearecrazy

        Get rid of Capitalism and it just might happen.

        October 20, 2011 at 7:39 am |
      • ummm

        get rid of all religions-Islam is just the new boogeyman--and you fell for it--sucker!

        October 20, 2011 at 7:41 am |
      • yarpirate

        Get rid of occupywallstreet and it just might happen

        October 20, 2011 at 7:41 am |
      • JihadJoe

        Fastest growing religion in the world, so not likely to happen. As far as capitilism..Its not the problem, its all the lazy people who are jealous of others that work hard.

        October 20, 2011 at 7:53 am |
      • Displeased

        Get rid of all religions, indeed.

        October 20, 2011 at 8:01 am |
      • LuisWu

        All religions are just ancient mythology. But sometimes necessary to keep the ignorant masses in line.

        October 20, 2011 at 8:21 am |
      • Chris Honry

        Capitalism and Religion are the two root causes of all fighting in humanity. One is trying to tell you how to get to heaven their way, the other wants you to either work to make someone else rich or trick others to do it for you.

        October 20, 2011 at 8:56 am |
      • todd

        Religions are the most evil thing on this planet! They are designed to keep you blind folded

        October 20, 2011 at 9:01 am |
      • bdgfn

        Get rid of Dan and it just might happen.

        October 20, 2011 at 9:21 am |
      • Pete

        Religion is the absolute worst!

        October 20, 2011 at 9:55 am |
    • John

      Science flies you to the moon
      Religion flies you into a building!

      October 20, 2011 at 8:25 am |
      • Phil

        I have that shirt! Gets a lot of attention...sometimes unwanted attention from people similar to the Phelps family with their Westboro Baptist Church and all.

        October 20, 2011 at 9:08 am |
    • Nonimus

      "We as a people truly have no idea about the physics of the universe or the dark secrets it holds. What's most important now is unifying all nations to be on the same page. We need to calculate our resources, be at peace with one another and share knowledge to advance our species and heal our planet."

      If we "...truly have no idea about the about the physics of the universe..." then how can we possibly unify "all nations" and "calculate our resources" ?

      October 20, 2011 at 5:00 pm |
  47. Me

    Information is about as useful as the info I get from playing the latest video game with my son...

    October 20, 2011 at 7:04 am |
    • Arturo

      This is a science FACT, is not suppose to be a USUFUL information. What a stupid comment.

      October 20, 2011 at 7:26 am |
      • Tom

        This is not a FACT, it is a supposition – a theory, and no more than guesswork. How did you come up with the concept that this was a FACT? Just because you read it on CNN? READ it again – they are guessing and have no proof. That does not make it a fact.

        October 20, 2011 at 7:38 am |
      • JihadJoe

        Most thinks in science can not be proven, not facts... Just educated guesses...and often not even that educated a guess.

        October 20, 2011 at 7:54 am |
      • JihadJoe

        Things not thinks... ah its early I need a coffee.

        October 20, 2011 at 7:56 am |
      • LuisWu

        Ah but a scientific theory is much more than just a theory. One definition of a SCIENTIFIC theory – A statement or group of statements that explains the observable facts. True, there could be more than one explanation, but being very knowledgeable about astronomy, I would agree that this theory is probably correct. Scientists have proposed this scenario to the the answer in the past. Similar situations with other types of stars occur all the time.

        October 20, 2011 at 8:25 am |
      • Cattleprod

        It's a theory, sort of like evolution :).

        October 20, 2011 at 8:37 am |
    • DP

      If the headline isn't about something you're interested in, why did you click on it? And, if after reading the story you still weren't interested, why comment on it?

      October 20, 2011 at 7:34 am |
      • Tom

        DP, Agree with you. It's kind of like folks complaining about the TV shows. I'f you don't like it don't watch it! If you not interrested in the subject, then don't read it!

        October 20, 2011 at 7:44 am |
      • LuisWu

        Trolls. They just post because the want attention. Lonely, pathetic losers seeking attention. Very sad.

        October 20, 2011 at 8:27 am |
      • Nonimus

        Darn it. This article is too interesting! I should be doing other things, but now all I can do is think about Blue Stragglers and comment on them. They really should make them less interesting. ; )

        October 20, 2011 at 5:06 pm |
    • jim atmad

      "Umh, Gork, what is that?"

      "Me call it 'fire'"

      "What it good for?"

      "Don't know yet. Just curious"

      "Useless. Go back to playing with rock."

      October 20, 2011 at 7:49 am |
  48. askmehow

    That's like the same thing that happens when a much younger woman marries an older man. Resulting in a mass transfer of funds and eventually scientifically proven the much younger companion takes it all. Such is life.

    October 20, 2011 at 6:08 am |
    • Oscar Tame

      Life imitating science?

      October 20, 2011 at 7:23 am |
      • waldroal

        Maybe she just binded him with science.

        October 20, 2011 at 7:40 am |
      • waldroal

        *blinded

        October 20, 2011 at 7:47 am |
  49. Albert911emt

    So many science haters here. Obviously, knowledge and curiosity are just beyond your capabilities.

    October 20, 2011 at 5:59 am |
    • Cattleprod

      You're such an intelligent sweaty nerd.

      October 20, 2011 at 8:44 am |
  50. steve

    WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    October 20, 2011 at 5:59 am |
  51. Donald

    The posts on this blob are without a doubt the strangest that I have seen, ever, on the internet. How did this one article bring out so many bizarre thought processes among the people tonight?

    October 20, 2011 at 5:07 am |
    • Arturo

      Agree..especillay the one one about the video with his son. One of the most stupid comment ever.

      October 20, 2011 at 7:28 am |
  52. Jared Roussel

    Good night, guys. It was great discussing with you.

    October 20, 2011 at 4:19 am |
  53. uhm...

    Everyone arguing. Exactly what the fuck are you arguing about on a page that doesn't even hold an opinion. Do you just like yelling at other people? If I went up to you would you yell at me just for the sake of giving me your opinion? Like what the hell is this..?

    October 20, 2011 at 3:50 am |
    • Jared Roussel

      You would think, wouldn't you? I don't understand why discussions and even debates always need to turn to a rude and immature place. I wonder who yet has not received the memo that:

      NO ONE HAS TO BE RIGHT OR WRONG. Understandings can just BE and be left at that.

      October 20, 2011 at 3:57 am |
      • JimboJones

        "NO ONE HAS TO BE WRONG" Ah, the rallying cry of the colossally wrong. Just like "everyone gets a trophy" and "there are no losers," this philosphy is for the weak. Of course there is right and wrong. Guess which one you are, lunatic?

        October 20, 2011 at 8:40 am |
  54. scootsy

    "It'll be interesting to see if you're still laughing at that on December 22, 2012 when you wake up and realize that you're keyed to the portion of the planetary grids headed straight into the ever-so-conveniently located black hole in the center of this galaxy."

    HAHAHA! Oh. Okay. Won't you look like an ass Dec 23rd.

    October 20, 2011 at 3:30 am |
    • MMMHMMM

      I will be looking for your dumbass to be quieltly trolling these pages Dec. 23.

      October 20, 2011 at 8:37 am |
  55. Objective seeker of truth

    A good book to read is The Bible, The science and Quran

    http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/MB_BQS/default.htm

    October 20, 2011 at 3:12 am |
    • Trevor

      Die.

      October 20, 2011 at 7:06 am |
      • yarpirate

        Live

        October 20, 2011 at 7:43 am |
    • LuisWu

      Moron.

      October 20, 2011 at 8:29 am |
    • Chris R

      I think some of you people are jumping to the wrong conclusion. Take a look at the link – basically it's a book that poionts out which parts of these holy books are supported or refuted by modern observation.

      October 20, 2011 at 10:04 am |
  56. scootsy

    Jared Roussel

    Every last piece of information that comes out of NASA is either a complete lie or a complete distraction.

    FAIL

    October 20, 2011 at 3:09 am |
    • Albert911emt

      You're an idiot.

      October 20, 2011 at 5:57 am |
      • yarpirate

        you're a tweebo

        October 20, 2011 at 7:43 am |
  57. scootsy

    Eckasha Activation LMAO!

    Jared Roussel- newly appointed mayor of the city FAILENHARD. Eat some more paint chips.

    October 20, 2011 at 3:08 am |
    • Jared Roussel

      It's always the most interesting and compelling to see the extreme transition of those most inclined to categorically invalidate the words of another without proposing absolutely any comparative logic or understanding. You're free to use your energy however you see fit, but one linear day you'll realize that it does you no good to reject someone else's understanding while having very little of your own that wasn't recited directly to you through sociological and mainstream educational constructs (i.e. mind control). You're not going to get the reaction you're hoping for from me, but yeah, remember the words Eckasha Activation. It'll be interesting to see if you're still laughing at that on December 22, 2012 when you wake up and realize that you're keyed to the portion of the planetary grids headed straight into the ever-so-conveniently located black hole in the center of this galaxy. It might merit a little more of your perspective one day. Either way, enjoy your "contributions" to the discussion and have a great night.

      October 20, 2011 at 3:17 am |
      • IShotJR

        Wow, really? You run your mouth quite extensively without any research or knowledge apparently. Many, and i mean MANY top and respected scientists have already debunked the 2012 bs. Currently they are more concerned with a massive coronal ejection from the sun striking earth where our magnetic field (you know, that thing that keeps us from floating into space?) is at it's weakest. It might seem like the end of the world when i fries satellites, but i would love to see for 1 day no one able to log onto the internet or text message or their cell phones. I'm not religious by nature, but i have read the bible, many times over, it's a good read, and unfortunately open widely to interpretation by the reader, and it simply states "no man, nor angel will no the time of the final trumpet" which means only GOD knows when the proverbial manure is going to hit the fan. Here's a simple lifes lesson for you, live each day to the fullest, be polite, say thank you, excuse me, etc., hug your wife, kids, mom or dad, make sure they know you love them, that way if it does go down, at least you'll be fulfilled in that aspect. Okay, enough ranting.

        October 20, 2011 at 6:28 am |
      • LuisWu

        How utterly stupid. 2012 doomsday = crackpot theory, and you fell for it hook line and sinker. What a dumbass.

        October 20, 2011 at 8:41 am |
      • JimboJones

        ...then, during the final rectification of the last of the McKittrick Supplicants, they chose a new form for him. That of a Giant SLOR! Many Shubs and Zools knew what it was to be roasted in the depths of the Slor that day, I can tell you!

        Holy crap, what a loony tune. Seek serious help.

        October 20, 2011 at 9:01 am |
      • Kdawgg

        JR
        Did you find a dictionary and pick words at random? Your post makes no sense.

        October 20, 2011 at 9:10 am |
  58. Objective seeker of truth

    Each one of us is created from a drop of sperm. Our own bodies are more complex than the universe. The earth, the sun, the stars and moon are precisely following THE LAW of the creator (Those of you who are following CERN, quantum physics, it has been concluded the universe was created from nothing outside of its own realm). The universe is expanding since "the big bang" it will cool off and end (NASA research). The creator continues disclosing HIS signs from everything we see (including ourselves) to evolution of science. We were created as well as are continuously evolving. There is no conflict between creation & evolution. The creator is beyond our human comprehension as He is infinite in everyway, we are only given finite comprehension. The creator does not have a son, or a daughter, or a mother or a father. The creator did send Messengers to give his divine message consistently the same, i.e. There is NO GOD worthy of worship but HE ALONE. Regrettably, evil created schisms between humans and created multiple brands of religions fighting each other and only worshiping their own vain desires. Finally, the creator sent HIS final Messenger and revealed HIS FINAL WORD for the whole mankind and promised that HE would protect His word till the end of the universe. He challenged mankind in His BOOK that if you do not believe it is from Him, either reproduce anything like it or find any contradiction in it (including scientific contradictions). It has been around over 1400 years during which all scientific discoveries are consistently in-line with the revelation and several scientific discoveries were foretold in it. Read this book today. It is the Holy Quran. http://www.quran.com May Allah guide you in the right path, as it is the creator who has your soul & life in His hand and it is ONLY HIM, who could could guide us all through his own mercy. Muslim simply means someone or something who follows & submit to the Will of God (or Laws of God). Therefore, the stars, the moon, the universe and the righteous human beings are ALL MUSLIMS. Just being a born with Muslim name and in a Muslim country does not make anyone "holier than though" person. It is the actual practice of righteousness. In the Quran, Allah says, " if anyone kills an innocent person, it is as if he killed the whole humanity". Therefore, the small minority of misguided people who call themselves Muslims and do not follow Quran are not and should not be considered Muslims. Therefore, go directly to the source, i.e. Quran and you will then learn first hand what is the true Words of your creator, Allah, the lord of the Worlds. May Allah have mercy upon all of us and forgive our sins.

    October 20, 2011 at 3:07 am |
    • Andrew

      -Our bodies are more complex than the universe-
      Umm, by objective fact of our bodies existing within the universe, and the universe containing multiple bodies, that is fundamentally impossible.

      -Those of you following CERN... it has been concluded the universe was created from nothing outside of its own realm-

      Seeing as how I'm genuinely interested in physics, considering it's my major, I tend to actually keep track of developments out of there every now and then, especially with this silly OPERA experiment result. Still, never heard them say anything about proving this, I wasn't even aware that CERN was a center of cosmology, mostly because it's not.

      The rest of everything you said is just religious statements, so uninteresting to me. No science content after all.

      October 20, 2011 at 3:38 am |
      • Jared Roussel

        Haha, Andrew. I was thinking the exact same thing about the first point you brought up. It's actually that the cosmic body and what we call our personal bodies are the same structure. One is a microcosmic perspective, and one is a macrocosmic perspective of the same conscious experience. So the multi-cosmos is no more or less complex than our bodies here; they are equally as complex and simplistic.

        October 20, 2011 at 3:59 am |
    • JimboJones

      Zealots are no different from anyone else on this world. We are all destined for the same sticky end and it has nothing to do with Allah, Muhammad, God, Jesus, Buddha or anyone else. You people are wasting your time and everyone else's time with your silliness.

      October 20, 2011 at 9:04 am |
    • Jesus

      There is no God!

      October 20, 2011 at 9:23 am |
    • BadMonkey

      Soooo .... tell me again what this has to do with binary star systems??

      October 20, 2011 at 10:52 am |
  59. Realist

    the Bible is as Realistic as a Comic Book! it's a Fairy Tal by Border-Line Cave Dwellers! LMAO

    October 20, 2011 at 2:58 am |
    • Jared Roussel

      So is a copy of Quantum Thermodynamics at this phase in the game. At least the Bible has some good quotes in it. Why bother forming theories of creation when all of this knowledge is already available? The trick is to acknowledge that when you close your eyes, you weren't meant to see complete darkness. That is indicative of our condition as a race; we're in the dark, like a computer whose monitor no longer functions. That's as a result of genetic distortions to our base morphogenetic templates. Such distortions can be cleared and our race memory imprints can be re-established. The proof's in the pudding, but unfortunately that requires eating a little bit of the pudding in order to find out. If you do research on the Eckasha Activation and stick with the technique for a month, you won't have to continue to take anyone else's word for anything. Don't expect the media to come out and tell you about it though. Everyone will just label you as insane and continue to argue. Have fun!

      October 20, 2011 at 3:03 am |
      • Andrew

        I'm 98% positive that the word you were looking for is "Quantum ELECTROdynamics". The other 2% is "Quantum CHROMOdynamics"

        That still makes me 100% positive you didn't mean "quantum thermodynamics", because frankly, that just makes you seem more nutty than you already do. Generally, for quantum approaches to thermodynamics, we simply classify it under "statistical mechanics".

        October 20, 2011 at 3:32 am |
      • Jared Roussel

        I did mean electrodynamics, so thank you for the correction. But I have a generally different view of understandings of materialized states in general. Quantum mechanics in general on Earth are just budding; I don't think anyone would argue that. But now that I compare the difference between quantum thermodynamics (a totally valid concept) and quantum electrodynamics, they're exactly the same thing, from different perspectives. The varying matter states (not all of which are visible on this plane of Earth) are actually related to a specific order of dimensionalized elemental structures called the Aah-JhA hydro-acoustic body from which different states of geleziac radiation signatures (think: conscious "light jelly" formed upon an encrypted "dark matter", also called rasha, structure) are down-stepped (refracted) through our multi-dimensional universal structures and are then *perceivable as* the various matter states based on their relative locations to one another. It's not easy to describe without a lot of background, but the material is out there in a study called Keylonta. The gist is that no matter state is truly physical but rather they are different corresponding encryptions of radiation depending on which dimensional perception and in which density perception of the dimensionalized structure your consciousness is focused within. These matter states, at their base, are actually formed through the refraction of harmonic structures... basically, vibration [sound] is the inverse of oscillation [light] which gives rise to different geleziac matter states depending on your relative perception. Maybe I can get like two or three concepts through, but I don't expect more than a "what?" back. I'm definitely not confused about the structure, but it's confusing just writing it trying to introduce 25 concepts at once. I'd have to know a little bit more about your background to try to appeal to that.

        October 20, 2011 at 4:14 am |
      • Andrew

        ... You are aware that everything you just said is nonsense, right?

        Oh, and my background is fairly standard, I have your usual undergraduate understanding of linear algebra, multi-variable vector calc, familiar working with tensors, have taken classical electrodynamics, statistical mechanics, introductory quantum mechanics, an introductory particle physics course (but it didn't include quantum field theory, so some proofs were fairly ad hoc), and a big bang cosmology course, I've taken others, but those are generally the relevant courses to comment on the subjects you're mangling.

        So what's your background, because something tells me you haven't taken many physics courses. I've made a concerted effort to at least somewhat know the subjects I comment on, though to be fair, there are a LOT of individuals who know vastly more than me. An undergraduate physics degree doesn't mean much, graduate students and especially post docs puts me to absolute shame consistently. And that's still well before you get into professors. I've just got a bit more than an average person's understanding.

        October 20, 2011 at 4:48 am |
    • auruin

      it has a lot more artistic value then you give it credit for..... its very very metaphorical because the writers used that metaphor to explain what they had no way of describing.... you just get people who come afterwords that place it on a pedestal and call it fact... but the old testament is very very artistic... thats why it was able to inspire so many people for so long... the quran is also extremely artistic and very poetic.....

      October 20, 2011 at 3:05 am |
      • Jared Roussel

        I can appreciate the texts. I can disagree with certain parts of them, but I find it extremely disrespectful to downright insult what is sacred to someone else. All outlooks in creation are equally correct and illusory because our perception defines our reality through the experience of our own consciousness as the Oneness that all must invariably lead back to. If you have one individuation and another individuation, it invariably implies that those individuations came from the same place somewhere along the way. So whether you believe in God or that we chaotically exploded from nothingness into somethingness, isn't it effectively saying the same thing? It's the zero-point, the point of all origination and the point of all return.

        October 20, 2011 at 3:10 am |
      • LuisWu

        All religions are nothing but ancient mythology and have no resemblance to reality. Ancient mythology, nothing more. All primitive cultures have their creation myths and other myths that become a religion. They're tweaked and modified over the centuries until the wording is such that it pulls you into it's fantasy world. Truly intelligent people are able to see it for what it is and rise above it. If it brings comfort and control to the ignorant masses then it's worthwhile but as far as respecting it, why should anyone show respect for ignorance or for ancient fairytales?

        October 20, 2011 at 8:37 am |
    • yarpirate

      Your realism is more akin to a stupid teenager justifying skipping sunday school by saying he's an agnostic. Get a life idiot.

      October 20, 2011 at 7:44 am |
      • LuisWu

        Ah, yet another one of the ignorant masses. Have fun with your invisible friends in your fantasy world.

        October 20, 2011 at 8:44 am |
  60. Jared Roussel

    Every last piece of information that comes out of NASA is either a complete lie or a complete distraction. It's that simple. Lots of it is scientifically reasonable (on a planet where we still measure distance in units that date to an origin of our own feet), but that doesn't make a lick of difference in the world when you've got a huge meta-galactic alignment approaching on 12-21-12 and people are too busy paying attention to the *theory* that certain subatomic particles even *exist*. For all that, I genuinely find it more enlightening to learn about the latest happenings of Lindsay Lohan. I believe she went back to jail today, bless her.

    October 20, 2011 at 2:52 am |
    • scootsy

      You fail

      October 20, 2011 at 3:00 am |
      • Jared Roussel

        Talk to me in a year.

        October 20, 2011 at 3:04 am |
      • LuisWu

        You won't be here in a year. The authorities will have hauled you off to the looney bin.

        October 20, 2011 at 8:45 am |
    • Paganguy

      Lay off of the moon-shine,

      October 20, 2011 at 3:09 am |
    • auruin

      haha.... meta-galatic alignment.... still won't have enough gravitational effect to even effect us.... the strength of gravity decreases exponentially... meaning that for every set amount of distance you move away from a source of gravity, the force of gravity drops by 1/4... so if you were a mile away from a source of gravity and you measured it... then you went 2 miles away from the source and measured it... it would be only twice as far, but 4times weaker... and if you were to measure it 3 miles out... it would be 4x times weaker then the 2 mile mark.... which just means that even if all the plants line up they are not going to have an effect on us.... mega-galactic alignment? even if it "appears" that our sun is raising in the middle off the our solar system... in reality its way way to far away.... thats like saying a basketball on earth is effecting the movement of jupiter.... asinine

      October 20, 2011 at 3:21 am |
      • Jared Roussel

        First off, contain the comments like "asinine" because if you want to actually debate and not just listen to the click-clack of yourself typing, it doesn't do you any good to categorize my logic as such. That's immature and disrespectful. As to address your point, suffice it to say that if you've been studying the electromagnetic fields on Earth and in Milky Way, you don't have a full picture of what the electromagnetic natural alignments are supposed to look like because what we call "gravity" here is actually a force that is being perpetually strengthened through artificial technology. Don't be so quick to trust your corporate-written textbook that obliviously spouts off self-admitted "theoretical particles" (gravitrons) that attempt to account for what really here amounts to a strange force that Newtonian physics account for because objects here appear to have a tendency to be pulled (pushed, actually) toward the planetary core. Your logic about moving "a set amount of distance away" (arbitrary) and increasing/decreasing by increments of 1/4 (specific) in quantum bears no semblance of mathematical congruency even by conventional scientific understanding. Now, a meta-galactic alignment actually relates to the Kathara structure (look these things up instead of trying to argue with me... this isn't some intelligence contest) of galactic systems. What we call "the Milky Way" is actually a misaligned portion of the universal system of what we call Andromeda M31 here on Earth, also known as the Aquinos matrix. The entire existence of Milky Way was resultant from a fall from a planet called Tara from an event that occurred far back in our relative past (and is now, evolutionarily, located in our relative future). When I speak of metagalaxies, I'm speaking of the space-time locations in between our galactic and universal system, so in this case that would be the union set of space-time locations (stellar alignments) existing between Milky Way and Andromeda M31/Aquinos. December 21, 2012 has always been a critical date, especially in recent times, because it is the point which our planetary templar complex (organic planetary star gate structures) align with the galactic templar complex and the galactic templar complex aligns with the metagalactic templar complex (which is part of the universal templar complex). Basically, you've got entire galactic CORES aligning. Conventional science doesn't even *acknowledge* the concept of a galactic core because they have not even correctly defined the correct boundaries of a solar system and galaxy yet. When we look at the stars, what we perceive as "outer space", we are seeing the distance in space-time between our *sun* and our local particum veca system (local galaxy). We are actually linked into the perception of our higher galactic systems through our solar core (which is the center of our solar system). No, it doesn't appear to make sense at first because we don't perceive ourselves as being located inside of our sun, but we actually are because our entire solar system is part of a larger star/planet called Urtha which is located in Andromeda M31/Aquinos. This is a big, big story, so while I encourage you to learn as much as you can, you should also consider that the mainstream understanding represents diddly squat because it is our collective (de-evolved) race understanding of roughly 300-years of continual study (not even accounting for the concept that many people are dying). Sure, the applications of mathematics and quantum theory is very valid, but the concept that quantum theory is still called theory is exactly what. Yes, there is a unified field. Yes, there are most certainly ETs and many inter-dimensional races and entire cosmic orders (most benevolent, but some malevolent). Unfortunately we're dealing with a lot of the "bad apples" here which is why we're on a planet that doesn't know much any longer, but help is also here in many, many different capacities for those who are willing to work co-creatively with that. If you are genuine in your interest of learning more, then a good start would be to begin your research into a subject called Keylonta. There are many resources available, and there is a video introduction on YouTube with planetary Guardian Alliance commissioned speaker Ashayana Deane called Ascension Mechanics in conjunction with Project Camelot. It will discuss many of the concepts I've gone into brief detail about here, and if you don't have time to watch the whole thing the first day, you can at least skip through toward some of the charts to see the alignment structures of the various structural complexes. That should help. Best of luck. I'm not interested in arguing if that's your initial response, so I would wish you luck in that case, but I would be open to further discussion here or elsewhere if it's something that proves to be mutually engaging and beneficial. ∞ Love

        October 20, 2011 at 3:51 am |
    • snow

      Oh Jarad, please pleaase tell me what you are smoking.. I want it too..

      I totally want to be get on the bandwagon you tout.. but I seem to be way too sane to follow your logic, and the magic escapes my puny sane mind.. Please tell me the magic joint you are doing too

      October 20, 2011 at 3:30 am |
    • Tom Paine

      I think you should go back to eating Subway sandwiches.

      October 20, 2011 at 7:40 am |
  61. Andrew

    And yes I'm aware I'm complaining about having to go through the frontpage of Nature, but it's nice to keep the links pointed to the papers themselves, rather than to the nature frontpage, which is not going to be current nearly as long.

    October 20, 2011 at 2:43 am |
  62. Andrew

    God d-mmit CNN!! When a paper in Nature comes out, LINK TO THE DAMN PAPER! I'm sorry but that should be instinctual. If you're going to have the hyperlink for Nature and for the Kepler project, you might as well give us the link to the actual paper you're citing. It's courteous to your readers to save us the trouble of tracking down citations like that.

    October 20, 2011 at 2:41 am |
    • Jared Roussel

      It'd behoove you to acknowledge that CNN is not here to provide information, so sources are simply viewed as above and beyond. CNN is here to provide an entertaining and emotionally-responsive form of mind control to cover up the fact that this entire planet is under complete ET manipulation. The media, through NASA, presents us with these whimsical views that the universe is less than 14 billion years old and that we're the smartest race out there (complete with ego pats) while other corporate-controlled outlets such as "The History Channel" (listen to the name for God's sake) attempt to feed us further lies about "Ancient Aliens" being our original creator Gods as referenced by Egyptian hieroglyphs. All of these falsehoods and half-truths all go back to the smorgasbord of competing intruder agendas interested in harnessing the quantum of Earth's electromagnetic fields through a technology called the NET. That's the short truth.

      October 20, 2011 at 2:48 am |
      • Andrew

        Heh, the really interesting thing is forget the media, I had a professor who worked on the WMAP project. I'm doing a research paper concerning how we modeled the CMB from discovery till WMAP (and possibly touch on Planck)... so apparently I'm part of the media conspiracy.

        October 20, 2011 at 3:26 am |
  63. Science Fair

    Science explains everything, but science.

    October 20, 2011 at 2:34 am |
    • Jared Roussel

      Yes because science is ordered spirit. So if you ignore spirit then you ignore the very essence of what science is being applied to. It's studying some undefined thing that just exists from nowhere. The issue is that religion presents us with a distorted view of spirituality, so science rejects it (for some good reasons) and then on the same token, Earth's version of science in its current state provides very few complete theories, even by its own logic, as to how our creation is. The union between these two now-competing focuses (and then some) is where the truth actually lies. The bigger point: stop fighting over it, and we'd get somewhere.

      October 20, 2011 at 2:42 am |
      • Science Fair

        Very well said. My statement neither favors science nor religion. It argues that scientists have to stand by the basic principles for which the laws of science operate; the same is said for those of many religions.

        October 20, 2011 at 2:51 am |
      • Jared Roussel

        I think step one is to reject both, step two is to learn the truth, then step three is to re-accept that both were partially on the right track the whole time. Our issue is that we're fighting and if one is right then they are Hell bent on disproving the other. That's called polarity and whether you look at polarity from a scientific perspective or a spiritual perspective, it means that we are not unified and aren't getting anywhere. The concept that someone can simply study religion and have no clue about science and still feel somewhat knowledgable about the workings of the cosmos is ludicrous just as equally as the concept that one can be a scientist and know every behavioral aspect of subatomic particles yet still not understand the true original of such a beautiful and divinely perfect mathematical structure. Oneness, on every level, is what guides us back to the original understanding that created our ability to argue in the first place.

        October 20, 2011 at 2:58 am |
    • CLCertified

      If you were born 1000 years ago, you would have wasted your one and only life, arguing that it is DEFINITELY a chariot of gold pulling the sun across the sky cause your mommy told you it was. The magical sky horses. Guess what. I still don't believe in your magical sky horses.

      October 20, 2011 at 2:44 am |
  64. Chris

    I have observed that people want to say something but realize that they don't know JACK SQUAT about the topic at hand or for the most part science/mathematics/physics in general, so they make snide comments/jokes/insults because they want to say something witty anyway to cover their ignorance and appease their need to say something. Kinda like I just did right here. So I'll be the first to honestly say it: I am a science enthusiast, but my knowledge is limited. I don't fully understand astrophysics, but I do understand how important these processes are in our understanding of this universe and thus our place in it. I am just smart enough to know and acknowledge how stupid and ignorant I really am and I'm not going to try to fake being smarter than I really am or picking on someone else just to make myself feel better, because that is disingenuous, misleading, and unnecessarily mean to our fellow mankind. Spread the good karma, not the bad.

    October 20, 2011 at 2:29 am |
    • Andrew

      It's surprisingly easy to understand physics, and even to some extent math. Math is often taught in very poor ways, but it's surprisingly easy in concept to go back over. And, with things like wolfram's integrator, you can even skip some of the busy work now. So you can understand conceptually how the math works without constantly needing to remember things like which trig identities solve which types of integrals. int(1/(x^2-1)) seems deceptively easy at first, but really, it feels kinda like reinventing the wheel to try to explicitly solve it. It's nice there are resources now that allow us to omit the busy work and still have an understanding of what's going on.

      I suggest you start at the beginning of your present math knowledge, and build it up slowly. You'll be amazed at what kind of new insights you can find regarding how math works, and how it ties into physics. (After all, physics is to math what s-x is to mastu-bation.)

      October 20, 2011 at 3:47 am |
  65. j0eschm0e

    the universe has always been here. the "big bang" is when a star is born. mass accumulates and as it accumulates gravity pulls more and more mass together. Eventually it comes to critical mass and ignites, and theres your big bang. to have the entire universe appear from one big bang is absurd.

    October 20, 2011 at 2:22 am |
    • Jesus Christ

      Wrong: the big bang is when I, your Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, BANG out some co me from my rock hard co ck using these holes in my hands.

      Now if you excuse me, I have some universes to create.

      October 20, 2011 at 2:28 am |
      • Jesus Christ

        BANG!! Universe created to a facebook picture of your mom.

        October 20, 2011 at 2:29 am |
    • auruin

      the big bang really wasn't a big bang..... its nothing like what your visualizing.... there was no space or matter when it happened, because they were just products of it.... there are no combustive characteristics.... gravity, electromagnetism, and weak and strong nuclear fusion are also just products of the big bang....

      the big bang can best be described by sudden appearance and rapid expansion of space.... not an explosion from tension building due to gravity... just the expansion of space.... expansion not explosion.... and space is still expanding to this day.... the expansion of space is the only thing thats faster then the speed of light..... and that means it functions outside what we understand to be everyday universal physics...

      i

      October 20, 2011 at 2:59 am |
    • Kevin

      While Jesus was being facetious, Joe, you were being serious. That's really sad.

      But I'm sure you're an expert...

      October 20, 2011 at 3:11 am |
  66. Joe

    Politics and Relegion are always sure to get an argument. When I was growing up my parents tought me not to argue about either. I vote but I don't brag about it. I don't put bumper stickers on my car in support of my candidate. I do my civic duty and vote. I am a registered Democrat but I have voted for a republican or two. One I was pleased with one absolutely made me livid. But I vote for the candidate that says he cares about the issues I'm concerned with. I'm not an atheist but I respect those who are. I respect all human beings except serial killers and folks who hurt other folks. When it comes to what is after death or what is not after death no one knows. We all think we know based on our belief or lack of belief but we really don't know. Why do Christians and Atheist always have to argue. What if Christians and Atheist are both wrong? I'll leave you to your own imagination on that one! Good Day, Joe.

    October 20, 2011 at 2:22 am |
  67. Jesus Christ

    It's me again, your Lord Jesus Christ, through me all things were made.

    Just wanted to let everyone know that I just masterba ted by putting my co ck through the nail-holes in my hands. Totally worth being nailed to a cross to be able to rub one out this way.

    Anyways, sorry about the whole giving-your-grandmother-cancer thing. I work in mysterious ways.

    Now if I can just bend over enough to use the holes in my feet...

    October 20, 2011 at 2:22 am |
  68. Jesus Christ

    Hey guys, it's me Jesus Christ, Lord and Savior of all mankind! I just wanted to let you know that this whole star thing is totally fine to believe, there's nothing in my Bible which I wrote myself over the course of several thousand years that says star's aren't allowed to be burning balls of hydrogen.

    On the other hand, you better not be g ay or else I'll da mn you for all eternity.

    So to recap, stars: cool, fa gs: not cool

    October 20, 2011 at 2:18 am |
  69. Russ

    The whole Genesis story has so many holes in it, it should not be believed by any intelligent person. I used think "God's Day" is different too, but he would have had to change the length for each one since we know how long it took to create each thing, and they are vastly different. That means that God is inconsistent. But God can't be inconsistent, because he's perfect. Inconsistency is imperfection. Therefor, there is no God, because an imperfect God cannot exist.

    October 20, 2011 at 2:04 am |
    • Anonymous American Latino

      I find many inconsistencies in what my Catholic religion tells me to believe that I find it too funny to actually accept. Since God created everything, as my Catholic bruthas insists, then everything that's both good AND bad and sinful is God's creation, but religious people only wanna give positive props to God when it suits their needs and not want to blame God for all the other bad things as well. It's so inconsistent, and that bugs me also. The Bible is just a bunch of fairy tales to make us feel good and to give us a general idea of common morals and themes that would help us to abide by and I'm ok with that, just not ok with people knocking on my front door on Sunday morning in suits and Bibles in hand taking away my one day out of the week when I can enjoy my football.

      October 20, 2011 at 2:19 am |
    • Jared Roussel

      The information is just alliterative at this point because the context of the days of creation has been removed from the original text. My posts are always removed every time I discuss them, but the true information is out there under a study called Keylonta. The days of creation are actually part of a very complex sequential, mathematical natal cycle called the SEda cycle of which the original conscious inflow from Source individuates into manifest creation through the perpetual birth of the rasha body ("dark matter" template), spirit body (etheric matter) and light body structures. If you look up the query "Legacy of the Lost, Freedoms of the Found" in Google, you can find your way to the original Krystic mechanics which is a re-translation of the original material where the Bible was once sourced from prior to the Illuminati-Leviathan Council of Nicaea editing the text back in the 300 AD period. Good luck with everything! The truth is out there if you are willing to do your research!

      October 20, 2011 at 2:21 am |
      • LuisWu

        Wow! You've really gotten sucked into a fantasy world. I can recommend a good deprogrammer for you.

        October 20, 2011 at 8:51 am |
      • Cedar Rapids

        If your posts are removed its because you are a nut job

        October 20, 2011 at 9:19 am |
  70. Russ

    60% of Americans believe that the Bible is literal truth. Of the other 40%, many don't believe in science, and believe global warming is bunk. I used to think that most intelligent people accepted the findings of science. Not so, sad to say. Myths and their upbringing get in the way.

    October 20, 2011 at 1:51 am |
  71. Jason

    The comment sections in these articles aren't exactly here because people like to read about people getting along with each other. They are here because people absolutely cannot resist an argument or a chance to bicker with someone. And for people like me, it is very entertaining.

    October 20, 2011 at 1:47 am |
  72. Tom

    What is this, asshole central?

    October 20, 2011 at 1:18 am |
    • Phil

      Yeah...pretty much.

      October 20, 2011 at 1:19 am |
    • IamLight

      Even Ass Holes are Stars

      October 20, 2011 at 1:31 am |
      • Judas Priest

        I'm certain yours is.

        October 20, 2011 at 1:44 pm |
    • OleWhatsHisName

      Now you undertand the source of dark matter!

      October 20, 2011 at 7:55 am |
  73. science is fake

    This is all fake, god did not want for us to know these lies that these "scientists" claim to be real. god has made this universe and it is very small and only contains our solar system because we are the only reason the universe exists. god will show you that this is all fake and that these "scientists" are just trying to trick you into believing that there is no god and that the universe is in fact vast and possibly unending. god is right "scientists" are wrong. read your bible and you will see.

    October 20, 2011 at 1:15 am |
    • Phil

      Why are you out of bed, troll? Don't you have to get up for preschool in the morning?

      October 20, 2011 at 1:17 am |
    • Indra

      I would read my bible but the Easter Bunny told me not to believe in it.

      October 20, 2011 at 1:36 am |
    • Captain America

      Its ok people calm down, If you really pay attention I assure you he's being facetious, he's joking. He's poking fun at the fact that there are people who actually believe that, someone who believes that wouldn't write it the way he did, so just enjoy the satire people.. i'm a christian and it gave me a big laugh

      October 20, 2011 at 1:50 am |
    • Jim

      The computer you are typing on is an inescapable proof of the science you reject. There is no way to put this other than this: you are a puling idiot. Crawl up your anus and die.

      October 20, 2011 at 1:54 am |
    • j0eschm0e

      what are you a whack job? then how do explain all the billions of stars?? are them fake too? I suppose you voted for obama too. how do you like the change? I have a little change in my pocket, is about what that amounts to.

      October 20, 2011 at 2:11 am |
    • abd0076

      Gee, a man who barely graduated high school here thinks he knows more than all the astrophysicists and biologists in the world. I'll take the numbers and empirical evidence of scientists any day over crackpot illiterates.

      October 20, 2011 at 9:15 am |
  74. wikiIeaks

    actually God created all the planets and all the stars in all the galaxies in all the universes. No, it wasn't 6000 years ago. Obviously the six "days" referred to in Genesis is not a literal 24 hour day, but a period of time. In the bible it also states that a thousand years to God is like one day and one day as a thousand years... Though this is all figurative, it shows that God's timetable is much different than ours. A creative "day" could've lasted millions of years. Anyway, I do agree that man has been on earth for about 6000 years. That's what all the evidence points to.. science has supported these claims showing that earth is billions of years old.

    October 20, 2011 at 1:05 am |
    • idiot killer

      What an idiot.

      October 20, 2011 at 1:13 am |
    • Phil

      Take the time to read the bible from cover to cover. The entire thing - don't skip around. How many flaws did you find? Man conceived god...man wrote the bible.

      Also, we have been on this planet a good part of 100,000 years.

      Science answers everything.
      god answers nothing. It's a weak argument.

      How does the universe work? god did it.... No - we are not satisfied with that answer.

      Do you believe there are other forms of life out there? Do you think they might look a bit different from us given that their planet is different than ours? So if WE were created in gods image - who created them?

      That's right. Evolution. Same thing that created us.

      October 20, 2011 at 1:14 am |
      • Steve

        If we evolved from monkeys and apes, why are they still monkeys and apes, if evolution was real then there would be no monkeys or apes, what an id-iot.

        October 20, 2011 at 1:35 am |
      • Brian, Detroit, MI

        We evolved from the same genus as apes, we didn't evolve from apes that are out there today. Science must be proven to be considered true. Science cannot be true without proof. For religion to be true it only requires that someone say it in front of a group of people. Christian scientists have tried to prove anything in the bible, they have failed. Science wins.

        October 20, 2011 at 1:57 am |
      • j0eschm0e

        to Steve.... because we evolved, that means we attained different genes to evolve than apes and monkeys did. that is why they are still apes and monkeys. Idiot.............................................. Phil, nicely written

        October 20, 2011 at 2:16 am |
      • CLCertified

        I love you.

        October 20, 2011 at 2:19 am |
      • Phil

        @ Steve

        I've waited for a moron like you to show up.

        If England colonized America, why do we still have England?

        Get my point? We evolved and split into a different species.

        Who's the idiot now?

        October 20, 2011 at 8:40 am |
    • Kelly

      6000 years? Are you kidding? Humanity has been around MUCH longer than that, as referenced by the Wikipedia article "Human" This is not a guess, nor is it referenced from the Bible. It's a fact based on decades of painstaking research and analysis of fossil records.

      "Humans (known taxonomically as Homo sapiens,[3][4] Latin for "wise man" or "knowing man")[5] are the only living species in the Homo genus. Anatomically modern humans originated in Africa about 200,000 years ago, reaching full behavioral modernity around 50,000 years ago.[6]"

      October 20, 2011 at 1:17 am |
      • IamLight

        I am God!

        October 20, 2011 at 1:26 am |
      • Captain America

        Yeah, homo sapeisn have been around (as documented per human remains) at least 80,000 years. Humans just like us have been tracked that far back, maybe a little longer. Neanderthal (who went extinct about 15,000 years ago) had been around some 50,000 years. I believe in Intelligent design, I beleive the universe is roughly 14 Billion years old and that scientists have proven that many times over, however, I believe for a big bang or the existence of the first and second elements Helium and Hydrogen, someone or something had to have set it all off, and thats where and a God like being comes in. God started it all, but the universe went on its way and here we are, 14 billion years later. Science and Religous are both right and can co exist, its the ones who say one is completely wrong and the other is right that are the real idiots.

        October 20, 2011 at 1:55 am |
      • Jesus Christ

        Hey guys, it's me Jesus Christ, Lord and Savior of all mankind! I just wanted to let you know that this whole star thing is totally fine to believe, there's nothing in my Bible which I wrote myself over the course of several thousand years that says star's aren't allowed to be burning balls of hydrogen.

        On the other hand, you better not be g ay, or else I'll da mn you for all eternity.

        So to recap, stars: cool, fa gs: not cool

        October 20, 2011 at 2:17 am |
      • CLCertified

        Ignorance and a fear of death are they only ingredients necessary to make a loyal flock of worshipers. It is sad, really, the lengths you will go to convince the rest of us that your low IQ is NOT being abused by people who only ask for money. And power. Oh and that you never question why they want money and power. Forever.

        October 20, 2011 at 2:41 am |
    • Russ

      Even if God's day is a billion years, it would have taken him 7 days. However, the universe is about 15 billion years old. Where did the other 8 billion years go? Then there is the problem of inconsistency. He created the heavens and the earth in one, which took almost the full 15 billion. Then he created man in one day, when we know that homosapiens is only about 150,000 years, and that manlike animals are only about 6 million. Then he created woman in one. God doesn't work by any kind of schedule I can figure out.

      October 20, 2011 at 1:58 am |
    • Poncho

      It's a fact – The #1 source atheists site for their not believing in God: reading The Bible with an open mind.

      October 20, 2011 at 3:01 am |
      • LuisWu

        Exactly. Along with using reason and logic instead of blind acceptance.

        October 20, 2011 at 8:54 am |
    • Judas Priest

      Human remains (including settlements, structures, clothing, and art) have been found that are considerably older than 6000 years. Sorry, no alien seeding going on here.

      October 20, 2011 at 1:42 pm |
  75. IamLight

    Stars are actually very highly intelligent "gods" so to speak. they have a very different consciousness then us. Much more ancient and evolved. We all will become stars one day. I hope I am blue too.

    October 20, 2011 at 12:14 am |
    • Sitnalta

      You got it backwards (and you're a moron.) We are the product of dead stars, all of the atoms in our bodies (except Hydrogen) were created in the cores of dying stars. We are the ashes that remain.

      October 20, 2011 at 12:47 am |
      • IamLight

        I understand oh non-enlightened one. One day you will see the Light! Stars have a consciousness too. Soon, we all will be ONE.

        October 20, 2011 at 12:52 am |
    • Dawn

      More likely the other way around, I think. We were stars, or at least born from a new star. A giant accretian disk that cooled and formed into planets to become us. And it's okay to be just us. It reminds me of "essay on man" by Alexander Pope.

      October 20, 2011 at 12:52 am |
      • IamLight

        Now don't get all wordy with us here please.

        October 20, 2011 at 12:55 am |
      • Judas Priest

        I once had a similar thought. Then the acid wore off.

        October 20, 2011 at 1:37 pm |
    • Judas Priest

      Certainly you will become blue. Find the nearest large ziploc bag and place your head inside it. Think happy star-thoughts.

      October 20, 2011 at 1:38 pm |
  76. Realist

    Humans should be called Gorilla and Chimp Hybrids cuz thats what they look like! LMAO
    with a little bit of Neaderthal breeding mixed in! hehe

    just shave the Inter-Species bred end product and you'll have what Science loosely
    calls the Human "Race"... which is anything on 2 legs in todays world...

    October 20, 2011 at 12:06 am |
    • Judas Priest

      Birds are on two legs. Next.

      October 20, 2011 at 1:36 pm |
  77. Gerald

    Don't judge the story by this crappy article. There is a much better-written story at http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44964854#.Tp-c37LBWUl which gives more information and doesn't have Geller coming across as a goober. It also has more facts. Better yet, just go read the actual article in Nature. You can get an idea of the detail in the Nature article by visiting the link to Nature.com where you can see some of the accompanying graphs and more.

    CNN really needs to find some real journalists to write their articles and quit relying upon poorly-educated unpaid interns and random bums off the street to create their web content.

    October 20, 2011 at 12:05 am |
    • RandomWords

      Yes, this article is totally unreadable. It appears to have been written by a 10 year old who has neither the grasp of English nor Science. It's no wonder the masses flock to the feel-good blanket of religion when an explanation of the universe around us is as badly written as this.

      October 20, 2011 at 1:29 am |
      • Chris Honry

        It's so funny how these scientists (and their believers, so hungry to deny the existence of God so that they can keep on being evil and selfish and feeling like it won't matter later) get a few data points and come up with a wild guess and that's their reality for centuries or decades until they get another data point and reform another wild arse guess. Like the current "truth" that the universe is rushing apart at faster than the speed of light, because of PERCEIVED red-shift : what a load of BS. They took one thing found by Edwin Hubble and decided it's all rushing apart faster than light. You know we'll find out later that is totally wrong, just like oh, oops, world is not flat, oops again, world is not center of universe or even solar system. Science: oops, oops, oops, there is no God, oops oops oops... oops

        October 20, 2011 at 8:51 am |
  78. Rabypus

    It seems a very reasonable and normal theory. wondering what makes it published both in Nature and CNN.........................................

    October 20, 2011 at 12:01 am |
  79. Metabud

    How long does this mass tranfer take? Millions or years?

    October 19, 2011 at 11:58 pm |
  80. Rlly

    What version of MS Paint did they use for the picture?

    October 19, 2011 at 11:42 pm |
    • EuphoriCrest

      Looks like CorelDraw, circa 1997.

      October 19, 2011 at 11:54 pm |
  81. Rlly

    In a galaxy far far away.... Im actually impressed they didnt add that lame pun in there.

    Had a professor once that called his students Earthlings... I dropped the class after 12 minutes.

    October 19, 2011 at 11:40 pm |
    • Shane

      Technically we are all earthlings.

      October 20, 2011 at 12:00 am |
    • newt

      Surely your loss was their gain.

      October 20, 2011 at 12:11 am |
    • Dawn

      I've always preferred the term "Terran" myself. "Earthlings" sounds a little too much like finger food for my comfort. Or maybe "Terrestrials".

      October 20, 2011 at 12:45 am |
      • En Taro Adun

        Terrans have nothing on the Protoss but at least you are all better looking than The Zerg

        October 20, 2011 at 4:00 am |
      • Jared Roussel

        Haha the original Taran races (from Tara) were called the Taraneusiums. That's where the word terra meaning Earth originally came from, from Tara which is Density 2 expression of Urtha (of which this plane of Earth is a part).

        October 20, 2011 at 4:18 am |
  82. professor reality

    The only thing this is missing is Once upon a time.....

    October 19, 2011 at 11:33 pm |

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