By Elizabeth Landau, CNN
You wouldn't want to shower in it, but researchers have discovered pockets of water in a deep reservoir in Canada that may be up to 2.64 billion years old.
Researchers extracted the fluid from ancient rocks in a mine 1.5 miles underground in the area of Timmins, Ontario. In other mines, water has been found to support life, but scientists are still working to determine if there is life in this particular location. They say this is the oldest water found in such an environment.
We spoke with Chris Ballentine, professor of geochemistry at the University of Manchester in the United Kingdom, and senior author on this study, which published in the journal Nature. Here is an edited version of our email Q&A:
CNN: How did you find this ancient water?
Ballentine: My colleague in Toronto, Barbara Sherwood Lollar, project co-director, has been working on understanding the chemistry of these waters for many years. She suspected the water was very old because of the high levels of helium (which takes a long time to build up) contained in the water. I am developing new techniques to date underground water (an essential component when making safety cases for CO2 burial) and we decided to work together to put a proper age on these waters.
CNN: Do we think that there was life on Earth at that time?
Ballentine: Life was established on Earth by 3.5 billion years ago (Earth itself is 4.56 billion years old). The rocks containing the water we have analysed are about 2.7 billion years old. The Earth's surface would be teeming with very simple life - the ancestors of bacteria. Complex single-celled and multicelled organisms did not evolve until about 1.9 billion to 2.1 billion years ago. The water we have found is between 1.5 billion and 2.6 billion years in age.
CNN: Does this have any implications for life on other planets?
Ballentine: The system we have found is truly ancient and can support simple life. Our work tells us that Earth had a refuge for life during its earliest stages of formation - if life started there was a way for it to be preserved during continuing bombardment by meteorites that would make the surface of Earth barren - and could push back the time when life could have formed on Earth.
Equally on somewhere like Mars, any life that formed could have found its way into similar pockets of water in the Martian crust, and our work shows that these pockets of water can survive and provide a place for the life to have survived long after the surface of Mars lost its water and became sterile.
CNN: Can you describe the environment in which this was found?
Ballentine: These are waters that come out of the rock from exploration boreholes deep in the copper-zinc mine. The samples we have collected pour out of only some boreholes, but they can flow for months. The environment is dark, dusty, very noisy and hot.
CNN: Is it drinkable? :)
Ballentine: Alas not. The water is crystal clear when it first comes out of the rock and looks very tempting, bubbling with gas. But actually it is too salty to drink (it is a brine), and the gas instead of carbon dioxide is a mixture of methane, hydrogen, nitrogen and helium!
My wife and I went to the Galapogos a few years ago. Spend a week with a naturalist there, and it becomes pretty apparent to most people that the earth is a bit older than 6000 years old. Evidence favoring the theory of evolution was also everywhere.
Not everyone can see it though. Apparently the group who was on our boat the week before had major theological concerns with the concept of evolution. In fact the naturalists were instructed not to use the word evolution during any of their talks. Give that the name of the boat we were on was the "MV EVOLUTION" I can only imagine how carefully they had to speak!
I guess people can believe whatever they want, and any time evidence supporting an alternate view appears, they can stick their head in the sand and keep pretending it isn't there.
How bizarre. I wonder why they were there? It's like going to the Louvre and demanding that your guide not mention art.
Funny how the religious fanatics seem to forget that without science they would be writing this all on paper and sending via the pony express. Three phase power, transistors, etc...all results of GREAT science.
What does that have to do with evolution? I would consider evolutionists to be religious fanatics. This article is about 70% religion and 30% science and people like you need to just stop trying to equate technological advancement with atheism and evolution.
We owe nearly every advancement scientifically and technologically to guys who were far ahead of their time and pushing the envelope of what those around them were even capable of comprehending. This kind of individual genius doesn't seem to exist today. Newton, Tesla, Einstein. Guys who also believed in a creator. Now scientific advancement has to be compartmentalized because we're pursuing an incorrect theory and putting people like Dawkins or Neil Degrasse Tyson on a pedestal simply because they'll toe the evolutionary line.
Newton was more interested in the bible then in science and Tesla read the bible for scientific inspiration.
We owe nothing to the belief in evolution or the non-belief in god. If you don't agree with that then you're ignorant.
The article doesn't mention religion at all. So where do you get the 70/30 split? This is only about finding water that is ancient by any measure. People that insert religion into an article lascking any mention of the word/concept, I see that as being overly defensive.
Also funny how human inventions didn't just happen by themselves...it took someone to make them happen..hmmm.
Yeah, their parents. Use the scientific method to unequivicably prove the existence of any supreme being without using artifacts of the religion you're trying to prove. Can't be done. Every human on the planet that is of European decent has about 5% Neanderthal DNA ... that's evolution. Every human on the planet can be genetically traced back to just 9 mating pairs in the horn of Africa area. That's evolution.
Absolutely correct, it took someone to create those 'human inventions' the same ones also created gods and eventually God, humans created them all, inventions that they discovered that made their life and work easier and gods to explain all those things they didn't understand yet.
As a "religious" person, a believer in evolution, and a scientist, I find your comments pretty offensive. These are not mutually exclusive things. Being a fanatic about anything (be it a deity/theology or a particular belief) makes you a religious person, something people tend to forget.
How sad that you think Evolution and science are one and the same. Please, enlighten the religious nuts and tell us how evolutionary beliefs resulted in electricity, computers, the internet, etc etc. If you are right, then to discredit Darwin would also be to disprove the laws of gravity, thermodynamics, motion, etc. Do you REALLY believe that?
why if we evolved hav science shown us that for hundreds of thousands of years we were one type of Humanoid then overnight we beocome another type of humanoid? science hasn't shown me yet where we 'Evolved' in between say neanderthal and the next supposed step theres no gradual changing, it just jumps from one to another just like that??? smells more like Evolutionaries grasping at straws to try and support there own 'Beliefs'
If God doesn't exist then how was water created? the stupidity of nonbelievers never ceases to amaze me. There is no evidence that "Science" is true, all "scientific proof" is fake, products of overactive heathen imaginations.
Make up all the fancy fairy tales you want with your "science" but anyone with a shred of decency knows that God created everything just a few thousand years ago. The earth is 6,000 years old. It is written, end of story.
There are a large number of evangelical Christians working in science today...including the co-director of the Brain Mapping Project. But it's clear you are not one of them. For starters, neither they nor their colleagues are stupid.
Okay, kid, quit trolling and go back to class.
If all things MUST be created by some sentient being, then who or what created your God? The answer is........man created your God
umm... water is created by the spontaneous exothermic fusion of hydrogen and oxygen, two of the most abundant elements in the universe. OMG NO WAY THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE SKYFAIRY MAKE WATER FROM NOTHINGNESS.
Nothing can come from nothing, big bang is stupid. GOD MADE EVERYTHING ON THE FIRST DAY FROM THE VOID.
Oops, i think my bipolar is showing.
And what is YOUR proof Israel? A book? Were you there? Did you see everything being created?
I respect your right to believe and I respect your beliefs, even if I don't share them. BTW, your last sentence was very telling; "End of STORY".
Jebediah Israel, you dear silly child. Science is for grown-ups. One day when you get older you too will understand what the adults are talking about. But for now why don't you go to your room with all your little friends and continue playing Magic.
water come from star dust like us. we and everything else in this world god made the universe not just one little planet so wake up and look around
Well Jebediah you comment shows how smart you really are science has proven a lot of things, religion has proven nothing .Would you believe in a current day cult no of course you wouldn’t ,religions are just cults that have lasted ,cults bring in the poor mental stupid and unhappy a few thousand years ago there was a lot of people like that and the cult leaders took advantage of them just like todays cult leaders ,there leaders used manipulation to gain power through fantasy story’s and the members believed this because they needed something to believe in to know there was something good in their lives and these stories were passed onto their children and so on until someone passed their beliefs onto you .The golden rule that cult leaders put into their fantasy story’s was have faith a way they could prevent people from asking for proof of something that was the biggest lie in history . Anyone can turn a lie into the truth if no proof is needed. So Jebediah what cult do you belong to??
I believe God created everything. How we interpret what we find on this earth is our take on it. It doesn't disprove how it came into existence.
How do you know the earth is 4.56 billion years old? Were you there? Do you have evidence? Or is it just faith in theoretical science fiction?
Remove the "fiction" part and you'll be closer to the answer. Then actually take some science classes... oh wait, I'm talking to someone who calls evidence fiction and a story about a rib woman and a talking snake "fact."
An excellent insight. Since modern science explains the world's origins, please describe what preceded the 'Big Bang'. Also, please describe the origin of the first uni-cellular living organism. Run me through the basic science of that little inorganic to organic transition.
you're using the term "organic" completely wrong. organic compounds aren't living things and are very easy to spontaneously create. they are simply carbon based compounds. Replicating the environment of the early earth and using simulated lightning or radiation, scientists have managed to replicate the "primordial soup" theory and get these simple compounds to form into complex amino acids and essential proteins.
However, the formation of those compounds into simple organisms is a very complex idea, and is being actively studied by dozens of researchers. Look up "abiogenesis" if you'd like to understand some of the theories, but more likely you'll just go look up genesis and read about how all life came from the few thousand animals that a tripping dude supposedly stuck on a boat when thousands of times the water that exists on the planet suddenly materialized and drowned everything else.
OK, so I take out fiction, and then I'm left with theoretical science. Still based on theory, where is the fact? I have taken many science courses, and I am trying to show you the holes in your reasoning. I never mentioned anything about religion, but you claim that I believe in it because I don't believe in the general brainwashing that many scientists are spewing out. The fact is, no one knows. I was being facetious when I mentioned 'where you there?' It was taken from that test that was published online last week. The truth is, it takes faith to believe in religion, and it takes faith to believe in theories that are still just that...a THEORY.
That's based upon the best objective evidence. Do you know that to be wrong? Were you there?
deaks, the answer is the same for World War 1. How do you know it happened. WERE YOU THERE? Or do you just have faith in that theoretical history and theoretical photography?
My grandfather served in World War One. Your comment reeks. Fake photograhy from WW1? Are you totally delusional? Do you doubt WW2, Korea, Viet Nam, et al, as well? So anything not written in your fantasy book is, by definition, untrue? If so, please don't reproduce. Get thee to any Middle Eastern country where your brand of extremism is celebrated ... for it certainly is not in any civilized country.
Easy fella, I was trying to point out the absurdity of denying evolution. Perhaps I should have ended with *sarcasm* to make it clear to those who might lose their minds after reading it...
radiometric dating ... google it moroon ...
that uses fancy gizmos invented by satan to trick humans into believing his LIES. how do you know what the fancy machine is doing inside of its computerness? for all you know it could be a little anti-pope with a direct radio-link to SATAN who tells him what number to put on the screen!
All hail god, may we kill all the gays and enslave the lesser races. You can have my daughter too if you pay well.
@ryan – You need to go back on your meds. You're using the strawman arguement to disprove or cast doubt on any and all pieces of technology just because you're too freaking ignorant to understand it? You're using a computer to access the internet. Is that device the work of a mythological creature called "Satan" to spew lies and misinformation, too? So anything not directly mentioned in your book of lies is fake? A tool of Satan? OK, do you drive a car? You're using a computer. You enjoy the comfort of HVAC? Go live in a mud hut, P'taQ ... you're a blight on hunamity. Your mother should be slapped for raising such an intellectually stunted Ultra Maroon ...
What do you get when you google 'moroon' ...lol! Radiometric dating is still based on human faith, as they are the ones who came up with the algorithm. At the university close to my house, they have a piece of wood that dates almost 2000 years into the future based on radiometric dating. How do you explain that?
@deaks – if you'd taken science classes, you'd know the difference between what is and what is not a theory. Gravity is a theory – go step off the nearest bridge to prove that it's in error. There's a huge difference between faith and theory. Science explains why airplanes fly; faith flys them into buildings.
I understand that Scientific Theories are consistent and are almost irrefutable. But on the other hand, theories are still proven wrong every day. Even an established theory, the Theory of Relativity is being questioned. All I am saying, is that a Theory is not 100% truth, and not 100% verifiable. If evolution of man were an established Truth, there would be more data connecting the jump from ape to man, but is a theory, not even a scientific one because it is lacking consistent scientific method to empirically support it. ALSO!!! You did not answer my question of the 5000CE piece of wood that exists at my local university. Please tell me how radiometric dating could date it as such if it is 100% accurate? Thanks, but I am sure I have taken more science courses that you.
If you took science courses, you must have slept through them Deaks...
There is no 'leap' from ape to man... modern apes and humans share a common ancestor.
You might want to refrain from bragging about how much science you've studied if you really don't understand the basics.
You never replied to my post asking you to cite your sources or provide evidence btw. Seeing your posts, you seem to be threatened by science. Since you know of one bad radio carbon test (A. is it NOT 100% accurate, B. a lot can go wrong in that testing, including contamination), you then make the leap of that it's all a bunch of hooey.
Does that make you sleep better or something? Invalidating science in your own mind so your religious beliefs seem more real?
And if you do need to tear down science to feel better about your religion, I suggest to you that your faith is actually pretty fragile isn't it?
kinda reminds me when my mother in law stated she needed to get "new" water in the swimming pool she bought for the grandkids. i told her that they stopped making water billions of years ago. she didn't get it.
Wow. I'm a firm christian follower. Baptised Roman Catholic. But what the hell is everyone barking at on here. This is a pretty cool article and fascinating what people are finding. Finding water that is 2 billion years old doesnt' disprove religion, so religious fanatics....settle down...it's just an article about water containing life. Even me a firm believer in god accepts there was life on our planet prior to jesus walking the earth. comon people settle down. It's just an article about very old water found in Canada. Chill out!
Damn Canadian liberals. The earth is only 4000 years old.
4,000 years old? You are crazy. I only have evidence that the Earth is 43 years old. Before me, it didn't exist!
You go, Erik!!!
You have to love how the religious nut jobs are always the first to comment on and attack articles pertaining to science. These comments only show how insecure you are with your own beliefs, to feel the need to attack factual evidence... There is no greater threat to religion than free-thinkers, education, and scientific facts... I cringe to think of how many great philosophers, scientist, and inventors were suppressed and killed by religious fanatics over the past centuries. Your faith is your faith; keep it to your self.
You're funny. Scientific facts have been proven to be false on so many occasions. Science says this is a fact, and then a decade later they say they were wrong and this is the new fact. Love it. They have the absolute facts, until they realize they were wrong and this is how it is.
Here is the part you don't get... when scientists are confronted with data that contradicts their theories... you know what they do? (Or _SHOULD_ do... there is such a thing as bad science) They change their theories to incorporate the new data. There is actually a process for this. It's called the scientific method. Really, you can look it up.
What do the religious do when confronted with data that contradicts their beliefs?
They freak out and as often as not attack the person that shook up their paradigm. (not always physically, but sometimes LITERALLY attack)
Byron is on to something, that overreaction says a lot about how shaky someone's faith really is.
Then again, maybe I am just part of that vast secretive group of Satanists that are always pushing that pro-science anti-god agenda? ;) Using logic and all those pesky facts as weapons against the faithful... lol
BTW, I actually HAVE been accused of being a Satanist in the course of a pretty simple conversation about archaeology once... my point was much of the so called 'biblical archaeology' is rarely science because they have the process backwards. You are supposed to gather data, form a hypothesis and test it, resulting in a theory. Biblical 'archaeologists' invert that. They KNOW what happened, they KNOW what it means, then go and look for data to support their beliefs. In a very fundamental way, that is not science. It ignores the scientific method. Any experiment where you can be sure of the outcome... isn't an experiment at all.
But MAN did that cheese someone off... their face was beet red and they just started ranting about how all of us 'science types' are in league with Satan etc. etc.
That's called an ad hominem. You can look that up too if you want.
It was disturbing and even a bit frightening. There are people out there that actually think I am an inherently evil person willingly serving the ultimate source of all evil in the universe. Granted, most Christians are very peaceful folks, but not all are. I had to wonder if someone thinking that couldn't get a little confused, or overzealous and start thinking it's time to kill the infidels... starting with me. not likely, it's not like I lived in fear for years... but the thought did cross my mind a few times... which imo is a few times too many.
That's a pretty silly thing to have to spend even a minute pondering don't you think?
But stories like this are not that uncommon. I suspect things like this are the cause of rising animosity between the scientific and the faithful. I am a tolerant live and live sort of guy... but I find it becoming more and more of a personal effort to tolerate the overly religious. I generally just avoid them whenever possible.
Just a quick addendum... there probably are biblical archaeologists that respect the scientific method... I am just not aware of any... but I suspect they do in fact exist.
The sad thing Dave is that most scientists don't follow the scientific method. The base their assumptions upon their own belief system, and don't follow fact, but twist their data to fit into their biased presumptions.
"The sad thing Dave is that most scientists don't follow the scientific method. The base their assumptions upon their own belief system, and don't follow fact, but twist their data to fit into their biased presumptions."
Oh? I assume you have some evidence to show us that proves, or at least strongly indicates, that most scientists twist data to fit their presumptions?
Or did you read THAT in an old book, too?
We are still waiting for your citation or evidence of your claims Deaks.
Like I said, bad science exists, but I forward that this is in the minority. You say 'most scientist'. That's a bold claim, you need to be able to back that up.
Can you? Or are you just repeating whatever you heard in church that makes you feel better about refuting facts and logic? ala 'oh, those poor misguided whacky scientists don't REALLY know what's going on...' I hear that a lot from religious types.
I don't mean to be snide, but seriously, if you can't back that up, I want you to ask yourself why YOU believe what you just claimed. If you don't have evidence and you are repeating hearsay, who told you that? Might they have had an agenda? Could your source be wrong?
Or are you just making this up?
@Deaks – the people that you are referring to as "scientists" that twist their data to fit the expected or desired outcome may be in the employ of those wanting to cite the researcher and the outcome – Oil & Gas compainies, for example, looking for "proof" that mankind has not had a detrimental impact on the environment. Or take some religious group that is trying to prove their point ... like Dave said, they have it all backwards ... starting with the conclusion and fudging data to match the results. "There are lies, there are damned lies, and there are statistics." Here's my point: you can find data to support almost any idiotic claim ... but if experimentation cannot back up the findings, it's bogus. Cold Fusion, for example. Relgion, for example. No experiment will ever be able to prove the tenets of Christianity but people have "faith" ... No thanks ... I have SCIENCE ... I win.
You're clearly on target here, Byron. For anyone to think the earth isn't ancient is either putting blinders on or an ignoramus. In the 19th Century, an English scientist who believed the Biblical age of about 7,000 years studied a volcano in Italy. He realized that an enormous amount of lava covered a limestone deposit and he knew limestone came from the remains of living creatures. By calculating the time it would take for that much lava to cover the limestone, he shocked himself -and the science world- by finding the Earth was at least 100,000,000 years old. So many other occurrances, from limestone deposits themselves to ice buildup in Antarctica gives us too much confirmation that the 7,000 year number is "figurative" or else simply made-up.
up to I looked at the receipt for $4191, I did not believe that...my... best friend was like they say really taking home money part-time on their apple labtop.. there aunt had bean doing this 4 less than six months and by now took care of the dept on there place and bourt a brand new Honda NSX. go to.......... FOX. ℂOℳ
Just stick to sucking d!ck, darlin'.
uhhh... what? no part of that comment was intelligible, which makes it a ringing endorsement for faux .c0m I suppose...
Hey Ultimate pics!! If you need any kind of geo textiles just visit Gorantla Geos
Sendeth me thine money for it be evil. With it I shalt overcome my laziness and taketh a nap instead of working. I say unto you.
Yea, tho I walk through the Valley of Knowledge, I fear no enlightenment, for I shun the education and intelligence that is thrust upon me by the dark and evil school system. I embrace the light and freedom of ignorance that allows me to believe in some big daddy in the sky who watcheth over me and my unbathed, I mean unwashed, brethren.
Do not walk in the darkness believing the false knowledge of the space men. For their tounge be forked and they speak noteth of the truth. Lo unto their fake lunar project for it was filmed in the desert. Their effects were not special and their falsities be of number.
Do not speaketh as a fool, remain stoic and silent, and only be thougheth as one
perhaps if you studied the king james bible you might develop an appreciation for the language
"........they speak noteth of the truth...." should be "speaketh not"
give it a try, I'm sure you can do it
Forsake the falsehoods of the Apollo trickery and walk in enlightenment.
You are confusing Apollo with Dolus, he was the god of trickery
Maybe . . . I was just trying to talk like the goofy preachers do : ) oh well. I haven't been to church in 30 or more years – just playing : )
Okay, perhaps if you are of Scandanavian ancestry, you would prefer the more (recently) familiar Loki
30 years?. Yea right, with as much crap as you've spit out about the LSD using MORON FOLLOWERS, oops, mormon followers, more like 30 minutes. I would believe that.
Cometh unto me and behold the rapture of everlasting peace. For I am the prophet and Jolem is my name. Behold brother, for thou art of mine flesh. Walketh with me to paradise and bathe in the waters if tranquility. Listen not to the falsifiers for their Apollo mission waseth a hoax. Listen to me children and learn of the false prophets of NASA. For thine rockets be weak and lunar lander be of film.
....and your brains be of feces
My brains are delicious. Just ask any zombie. mmmmmm braaaains.
I asked several zombies and all they did was shuffle and mumble, go figure.
You would know cora
So who put it there?
There are some interesting things like that in Canada
Like that thing in Nova Scotia, we don't know is there the things from other planet, or the things that are from the future, or were they poluted with some radiation thing.
And there are places around the world like Mahengo Daro, Puma Punku, where the levels of radiation are just in explikable.
the word is inexplicable. and looking up both of those places yields no mention of them having odd levels of radiation at all.
Behold. For the truth of the elder prophets hold enlightenment for all mankind. Seek wisdom from the Book of Mormon and not from blasphemers. The Book holds all the answers. Question not the prophets that walketh among you for the LDS offers enlightenment and the truth.
Haa you are making me very happy spreading my word , I reserve a "special" and "warm" place for you and your brethen
ancient water? what? isn't all water ancient? since when water reproduce itself? didn't the Earth had the same amount of water since the beginning?
I assume it means it has been isolated from the larger water cycle, and thus shielded from all the changes and variation in our atmosphere and biosphere.
The water you know is constantly breaking apart and bonding to different elements. For example your body is creating water through respiration and plants break apart water in photosynthesis, also adding table salt to water temporarily separates the Hydrogen from the oxygen. This water has been stable without breaking apart for billions of years; which is incredible.
If you read our Book of Mormon your mind will expand with enlightenment and you will turn away from the fallacies of fake science and embrace the truth. Accept the truth our children. Do not accept the lies of the false prophets. Turn to the light and feel the joy of happiness.
So says the creepy anorexic albino crooked teethed mormon preacher seeking to feast upon the souls of blue eyed child brides, many of them.
GO AWAY !
Take your Brass Plates with you ! ! !
NOW ! ! !
Why are you posting your masonic garbage here?
What planet are you from? I mean literally, what planet are you from?
Joseph Smith founded the LDS religion because he was always on LSD, making up such a stupid idea. And you as a follower, that would explain your comment.
omg water!!!! no way (jk)
you people are all CRAZY
Said Nobody. Ever.
nobody had the name spender H either
This is probably what the Spanish were looking for when they search Fl for the fountain of youth!!
The Spanish DID find the fountain of youth. It's called Florida State Welfare & Public Assistance.
I just had a glass of water that some dinosaur drank and peepeed millions of years ago. there is NO new water being made to replace what we use every day. It just goes round and round the biosystem of earth..........
A few years back Nasa was showing how new water in the form of ice was coming in through our atmosphere from space every day, do you remember this?
Its only new to earth not "New"
Mike you do know new water is created everyday. Infact a byproduct of fire is water.
Scientist have proven over 90 percent if people in Canafa are gay.
I don't know about anybody else, but I think this is totally cool.
Where were God while looking into this 2.6 billion year old water ?
I understand this is a liquid, but based on it composition, how do you classify this as water?
It is stiil H2O, however much "contaminated" it may be
Science is about going where curiosity leads. Religion is about leading while suffocating curiosity and going nowhere.
For the centuries of the Dark Ages, science was regarded as evil, and was punishable. Those centuries added NOTHING to our store of human knowledge, with a few heretics, like Galileo, being the only exceptions. It was felt that increasing human knowledge was to decrease faith. The only thing the public was taught was religion, and, for some, reading and writing. Nothing mattered, in the Dark Ages, except being godly and righteous. And we already know the harm that did. And we know WHY it is called the "DARK" ages.
To attain its goals, organized religion makes it their business to rub off the normal and naturally occurring curiosity of people, preferably at a very early age. It forcibly changes the nature of human nature, and in doing so causes harm, because quelling curiosity warps the mind.
Any faith or ideology who subtracts human curiosity does so for entirely self-serving reasons, and is abusing people to serve those motives. And the motives themselves are the same: controlling mases of people.
We are ALL born curious. Extremely so. In a rational family, that curiosity is nurtured, with some discipline – wouldn't want a child to tip a pot of boiling water on himself, after all. But otherwise, a child's curiosity is seen as a valuable attribute of his overall intelligence, and that it is the wellspring from which much valuable knowledge may one day emerge.
In a profoundly religious family, curiosity is seen as a threat. Curiosity leads to asking questions, and asking questions about the faith can all too easily lead to doubting the mummery. Unthinkable! A child whose curiosity has been so successfully smashed is warped, and those who made it possible were abusers.
If science is so bad, then we must give it up. I hope the fanatics realize that giving up on science means rejecting all that science has brought about – your refrigerators, stoves, microwaves, food processors, TVs, PCs, cell phones, cars, AND every single medical advance made since the mummeries were first penned.
That means allowing sewage to creep into our water supplies, because they'd HAVE to reject things like sanitation and hygiene, results of the evil scientists who discovered pathological microbes.
Let's see now. How many science-hating "believers" are willing to refuse to have their OWN lives extended by medical science? How many would prefer Biblical comfort to an anesthetic? How many would give up every product they own and use if it came into being as a result of scientific studies? Grow their own food, using no machines, and no fertilizers or insecticides, or irrigation systems. All transport via feet or animals. No communication except by messenger, smoke signals, semaphores, and mirrors. I think you can extend this list on your own now. You cannot be a true "believer" without giving up every single thing that has the "taint" of science upon it. If you keep those things, yet keep believing that science is evil, you're worse than a hypocrite; you're a non-believer, too, and your real interest in your faith has to do with agendas you insist on holding dear, not the faith itself. Religion empowers many highly unlovely agendas.
Science is evil? Yet you use a cell phone? How can you be so brazen?
Science is a never-ending series of questions. With one answered satisfactorily, that answer has brought forth a dozen new questions. Curiosity is a never-ending process of inquiry. Many things learned are also studied further, to see if refinements can be made to them. Scientists are often frustrated by elusive information, but the adventure of the search for knowledge and reality is inherently a joyful one. They do it for the joy.
Religion studies nothing but its own mummery, and discourages – or even forbids – asking questions about anything. Even the mummery itself cannot be questioned. It has "all the answers." Science, which is a process, doesn't claim to have all the answers, and "believers" pounce on that, claiming that THEY DO have them all, and science is inept because it searches for answers and never finds them all. So religion must be better, of course.
Except that it isn't. But there are no "true believers" either. They still use cell phones...
You poor thing –
You have absolutely NO idea what you are talking about.
This has absolutely nothing to do with the article.
It is actually an interesting article -
Shame on you. This was about discovery liquid in a cave and you went on a long-winded rant about religion. That's just as bad as the religious person who goes on long-winded, off-topic religious rants.
Focus on the science and the discovery, not the chip on your shoulder.
Well said athiest.
UR A I D I O T
Apparently you did not read the very first post by "LDS 11" wherein people were admonished to turn from "fake" science to religious "truth" which I believe the post was actually referencing.
Too long, didn't read
It is wonderful that we are living at a time when more and more people –including scientists - recognize the harmony, and ultimate inseparability of science and religion. In the last analysis science and religion may be seen as different, but eternally intimate facets through which we see, and interpret, reality. Typically what we label as science is knowledge based on studying material reality, and what we regard as religion is connected to that body of knowledge bearing on the study of the spiritual dimension of reality. Science without religion leads to materialism, and religion without science leads to fanaticism. It may be defended that the ethics that we need to guide science is essentially religious in nature; and the systematic approach we need to deeply appreciate Divine Revelation - the foundation of religion - may be said to be scientific in nature. For humanity to progress in a balanced manner the religious and scientific communities of the world need to intimately collaborate, and the harmony of science and religion permanently established.
That is the most B.S. statement I have heard since someone said "trickle-down theory".
religion as comedy, how divine! LOL
Actually, they weren't very interested in be righteous. Righteous people would not kill other people just because they don't worship the same god in the same way.
H.B. You obviously don't know squat about religion or being in a truly religious family. I am a life long Roman Catholic. I am an engineer. I am a scientist. And not once in my lifetime has my curiosity about the universe been viewed and/or treated as a threat by anyone in my family, the members of the churches I have attended, or the clergy with whom I have discussed science and engineering. You seem to forget that it was only the clergy that kept reading and writing alive during the Middle Ages. You have also forgotten that a priest by the name of Gregor Mendl is the father of modern genetics. Would you go to a dentist for legal advice? Or a doctor to fix your car? You' obviously don't know what you are talking about when it comes to religion. Why would you expect anyone to come believe what you say about religion?
You fail to disclose where you grew up. That has more to do with it than the actual religion.
@H.B. Blow it out your @$$!
What are you on about, mate? Chill out! I'm curious as to why they let you out of your padded cell!
The water we see everywhere is the same water that has existed in its various compositions; i.e. liquid, gas, crystal since forever. Water is life. Why is this so hard to comprehend?
Right sentiment, wrong place.
LMAO U R A I D I O T
H. B., I agree, keep it up, end the dark ages.
Religion is the Worst form of Government in our Human History, used by dictators for 6,000 years of written history to keep the people self-doubting, guilt ridden, divided with specious culture wars and ignorant.
uranium and thorium decay into helium.
By the way, I love Canadians!
I checked out this topic on another site:
and then I read the comments. Wow, compared to this blog it was refreshing to see so many comments from people with curious minds and a sense of wonder. I think I'll leave CNN and go over there instead. Maybe the intelligent posters here can join me. That way we can leave the Fundie and atheist trolls a place here where they can fight, or do whatever makes them happy.
You sound like a gutless wussie, go ahead and leave, don't need u here.
The only Wuss I see here is you. Fool.
Thanks for the link. CBC does a great job of reporting on any topic. I usually start with CNN, and if the comments prove to be too divisive (as they so often do) I turn to CBC or McLean's for an objective view, and much nicer posters! I always thought the comments following the articles should be ABOUT the article or its topic
BYE....You WILL NOT be missed.
All H2O elements of water on the planet Earth are the same age. I guess folks have to write something and publish here in order to make a living.
I attended a meeting at our local water board meeting and learned we have all the water we ever will have and its been this way since the beginning. As a result, I support your view on the water issue.
Technically that is correct. However, this find was reputedly in an environment not accessible to the typical cycle. Therefore, the article has vailidity.
Great not another "Humans walked with the Dinosauers" nutcase.
Many combustion reactions produce CO2 and H2O. Being fire makes water.
Oceans are just as old.
Looks yummy. Oceans are just as old.
BS! That water doesn't look a day over 100,000!
you must be scaring the hillbilly conservative with that date.
And all the AIDS infested gizz swalowing phaggs.
Yet another Bigot ready to procreate in the name of wilful ignorance.
lol. struck a nerve, did he?
Chris, you and lolwut wouldn't just happen to be but buddies would you?
Read The Book of Mormon and learn the truth. Our early LDS saints are the true modern prophets. Our Brigham Young University has the finest science department in academia. Our scholars have proven the earth was created 6,000 years ago. Do some real research before spouting off your humanistic nonsense. .
really? ...I've got carbon dated fossilized dinoturds older than that. I've read the book of Mormon and I don't recall that, please tell me where I can find that information.
sorry – carbon dating is inaccurate and uses a lot of speculation and assumptions which may or may not be true.
LDS IS A CULT of mysoginistic lemmings longing to belong.
LDS IS A CULT
LSD is a DRUG
Bahaha thank you for the laugh, I am assuming you are joking. Very amusing man. Good post.
The only non sense here is the crap rolling out of your mouth and your bigoted people.
Throw your computer out. You dont deserve one.
MMMMMMMM maple syrup. Pee from a tree.
I read all of the dumb comments made by people from Canada. They sound like embiciles up there in the great white north. Just a bunch of hosers. No wonder we call it America's hat.
I agree 100 percent. My wife is from Toronto and she is dumb as a stump. She even believes that NASA landed a spaceship on the moon. They teach some funny stuff up there in Canada. Fairy tales.
Lotta fairies, that's for sure. Your wife know about your boyfriend?
Sigh. Leave it to us Americans to turn an article regarding science into comments insulting another country. No wonder the rest of the world hates us so much.
Not to worry, Mark. I think Doug might be a closet Canadian, he has a brother called Bob....... Real hosers !
Canada is a great place, Sorry you can't see that for yourself.
One thing I really like about it is people don't get shot at movies and public events.
We don't carry guns, we fight like men.
We elect Muslims for Mayor in major cities instead of hatin' and killing them.
We also invade the south US every winter and sink millions into your flailing economy.
Agreed, Pete. We also don't care who you marry, as long as you are a hockey fan !
Yeah, you let foreigners tell you how to live while you pay them not to work. Bunch of geniuses.
Classy, Doug. Then again, if we're your hat, that means we're on top. And in prison that would mean you're our bi@tch.... By the way, get spell-check.
Sorry aboot hording the water, eh ?
The water is pretty old on this planet.
Watchout for those piranhas..
Seriously – is CNN looking for news... isn't all water that old – duh!!!!
Like yeah, eh. Reporter pretending to know what they are talking about.
No, genius, it isn't. Guess we didn't do so well in chemistry class, huh.
Any dates past 10,000 years are inaccurate and unverifiable. This has been confirmed many times over.
At my place of work we are currently pumping water that is thousands of years old and not being recharged.
Now we are paying the price and running out of water – so why are we down this far mining? To hide your head in the sand and think we won't run out of resources --
That's true with respect to carbon dating. The article refers to measuring helium buildup, which is another way of determining age.
Per the Bible, right? The Earth was created 10,000 years ago, and any evidence to the contrary is the work of Satan. How nice for you to believe that.
It was created only 6,000 years ago you heathen. I'll bet you aren't a LDS like me. Here in Utah the Beautiful we know the truth.
LDS, LSD, toemaytow, toemahtoe
You cant believe everything your cult leader says. And if you actually believe this, please drink the small cup of cool aid your cult will be drinking the next time the world is "suppose" to end. Thanks.
You are so wrong, it would be funny, if it wasn't so sad.
There are numerous, very accurate ways of dating things way older than 10,00 years.. one is the uranium-lead radiometric dating scheme, which has been refined to the point that the error margin in dates of rocks can be as low as less than two million years in two-and-a-half billion years. An error margin of 2–5% has been achieved on younger Mesozoic rocks, not to mention Potassium-Argon dating, rubidium-strontium dating, etc, etc, etc.
Do people like you even bother to research before puking up your uninformed personal opinion?
When multiple methods of measurement all agree on the age of something, it's pretty definitive,
I did not say in any way what the actual date would be – and that I am religious in any way.
Only that there are great inaccuracies that can and have occurred in ANY forms of dating past 10,000 years.
I believe it COULD be somewhat in the vicinity of that time period.
Don't read more into it than face value.
And you have NO idea how informed I am.
Obviously though – you believe everything they put on the internet.
Let me take you to my lab and show you a few things.
Funny, it was all created at the same time...........
But NOT by any god...
You better hope not.
The leading theory is water was brought to Earth by comets, yet samples from comets show the water contained in them is H3o, and not H2o. Guess the Earth got pelted by all the H2o carrying comets first and only the H3o
ones are left cruising the Universe.
Scientist know jack squat about how the Earth was formed or the Universe for that matter. Self admiring pompus idiots
who can't function worth beans in daily social life, yet are trusted to form theories that are truthful? Pluuuuuleeeeease.
But, of course, you know better than they do, so please, enlighten us with how it all happened.
@irobot: I'm guessing your wife ran off with a scientist?
Irobot.. are you serious? H3o is just water that is Ionized and can quickly lose that Ion and be H2o. Basically It is acidic water and your comment is just idiotic at best.
Creation was spread out over 6 days and on the 7th he rested. It's a proven fact. Our Brigham Young University has researched this thoroughly. Us Mormons are the chosen people. Do some research.
And of course you also believe everything you read on the internet, right ?
And if the Mormons are the chosen people, how come Mitt the Twit is not in the White House ?
Chosen, not elected apparently
Lady, you need to lay of this latterday saints hate speech I have been a member my whole life sealed in the salt lake city temple and this hate that you are spreading is not our way. Having said that these scientific facts are sound and logical the world is billions of years old not 6,000 to think that is just moronic at this point. Have faith in god if you believe I do, but but do not turn your back on the amazing facts of the world around us.
Don't let the tea party patriots anywhere near this stuff. They'll put it in mason jars and try to drink it.
What a stupid comment. Is that all you have.
..another mindless liberal twit
Aren't you supposed to be digging a latrine behind your trailer?
You need some new material.
Or maybe we should let the Tea Party take it...
The waters in Canada.....remember?
they could bottle it asTea Party Juice... but we are not that lucky..
What a pointless comment
I was glad to hear that the IRS is keeping an eye on the teabillies These baggers are by far the most subversive group in the country today and someone has to keep their thumb on them.
I thought you libs promoted doing away with childish hypocritical hate speech. Thought you were supposed to be the smart ones who had "evolved" beyond that kind of low brow knuckle dragging. Apparently not. Excellent. Please continue to do my job for me by showing the world how unintelligent you really are.
Someone should probably be digging your grave behing your welfare housing..
Wow, it sounds as if someone is a little butt-hurt, been tea-bagged a bit too much, have you?
You are a twit alright. Why don't you leave this discussion to the intelligent adults.
I guess that leaves out Tea Party members from adding any comments.
I'm not quite sure how the headline quite works. First off, the vast majority of water is that old, stray bits of ice may have come in off later comets, but most of the wet stuff was here long before the dates mentioned. Second, the water from the holes isn't a snapshot, it's been in contact with the surrounding minerals and rocks of millions of years, it's changed over that time as the minerals and gasses dissolved in ever higher concentrations into the water. Also, since water commonly trickles down through the rock formations (which is how this water got there in the first place) all they're really dating is the rocks around the water, not the water itself. I'm no expert, but I am a massive earth sci nerd with particular interest in geology and hydrology, if someone who is a bigger nerd than me would care to discuss, I'd greatly appreciate it.
They made an assumption that the original water was still in place and that plate tectonics had not lifted or lowered this strata substantially since formation. They assumed that this water was always captive, and had not migrated from other strata. Without other data, this is pretty suspect. Brine, of course, is salty water and is typical of water deposited from sea water, or from water that has solubilized salts from the rock that contains it. Mines often act as paths for water in upper zones to flow downward, but this may not have been the case here. All we can assume is that they made a lot of assumptions to come to a theory.
This is ignius rock, there is no strata. Strata is found in newer sedimentary rock formed in layers at the bottom of an ocean.
The dating has to do with the gases in the water, without the elapsed time those gases would not be at those concentrations.
Thank you so much for this relevant thread. I appreciate the additional thoughts and information regarding this fascinating find!
Surprisingly, it is the same way we know how old Rush Limbaugh is, through the amount of gasses he has emitted.
Hey, have you ever tried Canadian Beer? Its usually good and strong.
I wonder if it is leftover dinosaur urine?
Newsflash..... ALL WATER IS 2.6 Billion years old.
That's what I was thinking. In fairness though, this water has been locked away from the water cycle for a very long time.
Think of it as a water time capsule. It's not so much about the water itself – the molecule hasn't changed – but rather what's in it.
Oh, it's older than that! All of it. I think what they're talking about is the age of the formations they found it in.
Actually, photosynthesis does create water. I believe it is the second step in the process.
That's like saying all the blood (or cells) in your body is 30 years old or whatever. THINK.
Yep it's Canadian water – they found traces amount of maple syrup in it.
Scully!! do you realize what this discovery could mean!? we are talking about proof that water existed underground a long time ago. do you know that 2000 feet above this location sits an old Indian healing spring? coincidence? or something more?? (x files theme- whistling.)
That picture looks like the album cover to Pink Floyd's Meddle. Too bad Storm isn't around any more... I could see that showing up on a remaster or something...
On which of the 7 days of creation was the water put there?
It's difficult to remember that far back but I seem to remember there were a whole slew of different gods doing fdifferent things at the time. There was a sky god, an earth god, and a water god. But which day did water form? It all happened before we had calendars so it depends on who says what. I haven't heard from the water god, Ea, (or enki in Sumerian – but no one speaks that language anymore) in quite a while, but she might be your best source. Later in history others created their own gods and stories, such as the Greeks, the Jews, and the Muslims, but I recommend going back to the earliest version fo the stories to get a better idea of what really happened. One of the first stories went like this "UGH, ARGH, UH, Unh Unh, ooo, ooo, ahh, ahh, ruf", which was never written down but has been passed down by word of mouth in the family on my mother's side for the last 47,000 years. It means, "On Thursday The goddess created water, then it was all complete. Now Everything exists, so let's deal with it. Now what are we going to have for dinner?". Does that help?
Perfect... filled in a few gaps I was wondering about.
I like your version much better...I believe.
On the first day of Christmas...
Ohhhh, Creation, not Christmas. My bad.
Wow, Timmins is in the news and there was no mention of is being the home of Shania Twain.
It is still possibly the most boring place on earth, above the soil or below.
The Shania Twain Centre has been purchased by another gold mine who will soon be tearing it down. It was such a waste of tax payers dollars.
It's an open pit mine now, not unlike her first marriage.
Same story, much different comments.
Ever want to know the difference between Canadians and Americans? Read these comments as opposed to the ones left on the CNN story.
Wow thank you so much! I love America, but the people in here not so much....
My husband and I have been contemplating a move back to Canada. This might seal the deal! :)
Alas, many in this country are scientifically challenged. We have multiple creationist museums for goodness sake.
And are you strong-armed into going to these museums?
Didn't think so.
Museums? I have never seen one of them. Must be kind of fun to go in and poke fun at the exhibits.
Nice point, but keep in mind that a very small number of posters (mostly bitter right-wingers) make most of the comments on CNN boards. They are in no way representative of the majority of us.
Thank you for being a voice of reason. Like viewing a train wreck, I am drawn to these posts, but they inveriably irritate me. I always hope for better in the science pages. Every blue moon, I find one. Americans are no more smart or stupid a group of people than in other countries. We just seem to have more video feeds.
Do you think Canada wants molecular biologists? I love the US, but wow, that place looks friendly!
That's because most Americans are worthless Americants and severely embarrass the few decent Americans LEFT ("pun intended") on a daily, if not hourly, basis. There are psychological tests that can be interpreted as only 10% of people are decent, good people, and the rest not so much. America probably scores much worse than Canada and some other countries, partly because of cultural and societal differences. I've personally experienced the "10% Solution" WAY too many times in a variety of situations. America used to be MUCH more "like Canada" (in these senses) pre-1980. Of course, it's actually only about 1985 in Canada, so they will probably catch up at some point in the next few decades.
The fact that you think that because you're LEFT makes you better just proves this person's point. Congratulations on being "the point".
i agree the difference in comments is amazing, it is obvious the Canadian educational system is far superior compared to Americas.
Yeah, my favorite was the dolt who was talking about the first aliens we find being from THIS planet. Brilliant indeed!
I can give you ancient pizza from my fridge if you like.
With the very high levels of helium in this ancient water, would someone become lighter if they drank a reasonable amount of it?
No Ajax. The helium also has weight so the body would increase in weight by that amount. But hten you would pee it out so back to square one on your weight.
Still plain old H2O
Needs replaced with BRAWNDO!!!
Very soon. when Kim Kardashian is President, all liquids will be replaced with Brawndo!
Canadian Brawndo Beer
What the religious who love to deny science don't understand is that religion, god and jesus are simply opinions, not facts.
It is however when people try to force these opinions on others, including through law, is 'Terrorism'.
Proof alone that christians in the USA practice terrorism.
Could you explain how full of excrement you are?
ipinions is all..
that's all religion. god, jesus deeds, satan, heaven, hell,, are <– opinion
Scientologist go home...preach your brainwashing rhetoric somewhere else.
I never seen President Lincoln, but when I read history books that tell me people seen him and that he really existed, I tend to believe that Pres. Lincoln really lived. When I read the history book called the Bible, and see that a lot of people seen and walked with Jesus, and even seen him after his death and seen him ascend into heaven, I tend to believe that he existed and really did live. If you don't believe, that's fine, we live in a country that allows all such beliefs and all such beliefs or nonbelief are tolerated and allowed. The fact that you call Christians terrorists may mean that you are a terrorist since you don't allow people to believe in Jesus or God! Maybe you should live in a country that doesn't allow anyone to have any religious belief except for what the government orders.
Let me know when anyone starts claiming Lincoln rose from the dead on the 3rd day.
Your nuts I once heard of people seeing dragons, do I belive that dragons exsist no. The bible is nothing more that a book of stories meant to entertain children.
There's only one book about Jesus, but SIX about Harry Potter. Clearly Harry Potter existed and did all of the things attributed to Him!
That I am not a member of any Christian Church, is true; but I have never denied the truth of the Scriptures; and I have never spoken with intentional disrepect of religion in general, or of any denomination of Christians in particular. -Abraham Lincoln.
While I appreciate your enthusiasm in being such a hypocrite and hateful person, I must inform you that your post doesn't even make sense. If you know anyone who took and passed a college English class, I would consult them before making any more.
Water sucks! It really really sucks!
You mean GatorADE? If you're going to be a wiseass, at least try to get the right name.
Florida St is developing their own sports drink. To separate it from GatorAde, they are going to call it SeminoleFluid.
That joke is older than the water in the bottom of the mine!
You must be drinking the wrong water!
More scientists just blurting out "facts" and people blindly accept it...
Facts hurt head. Why science guys want hurt my head. Facts bad! Me go listen to Obama. Never deal with facts. Me feel better.
I have no doubt whatsoever that you actually speak that way but that is what you hear in your head as well, only not in your own voice.
Better science based on logic and a vast canon of knowledge than made-up religious nonsense masquerading as truth.
If you don't like the facts then why don't you just got stone somebody to death.
Spent 30 mns reading all those posts.....we are very diverse in our own ignorance.
All water on earth is at least 4 billion years old. It's not like ocean water or the water that comes out of the tap was made last week. Who are these idi0ts that write CNN's "science" articles?
reading the posts, many posters didn't quite get the article. It was trapped water within a rock. The water was never exposed to other life forms past a billion or so years ago. This is fascinating stuff.
Maybe it's just religious posters who have difficulty with proving, the motive behind all science.
Nay, religious posters should have nothing against what physicists like Paul Davies have written about God. It's people that go no deeper then looking up how to spell science that have problems. The funnier ones are the ones that say things dis-prove the age of earth according to the Bible...they don't realize the Bible says nothing about it.
How about that water I made last week by igniting hydrogen and oxygen?
Did you know that water is created when hydrocarbons burn? Gallons of water are made when you drive your car.
I will prove this is all nonsense by drinking a glass of this "ancient water". I will be fine. Soon they will claim to have found
Its coca-colas secret recipe
Reblogged this on Im going on an adventure!!!.
In the second answer, would you please correct the misspelling of "teaming" to "teeming". Thank you.
Shut up Colleen.
Just take off them shoe's,get back in the kitchen and bake me a pie.
This is unbelievable. Scientists still utter favorite lines i.e. "maybe", "may have been" etc. They cannot give any answers to questions of the origin of the universe and still claim to know it all. Whereas we believers in our Lord Jesus Christ are humble, believe in the Bible and live in peace. I feel for the tortured souls of the scientists. Our Lord loves you; come and join our fold and find PEACE.
Science in then end will find answers. I like Christianity, the Bible provides surprisingly well written proverbs on how to live your life peacefully. Yet, organized religion for as long as it has existed has been a reason to kill rob and steal from others. Everything is possible with science, wiki-pedia stem cells, or organic 3D printing.
You've been nabbed
Scientists are willing to admit they don't have all the answers... Christians think they have all the answers even though everything they've been taught is pure fiction... Talking snakes?? Get real and grow up.
Almost as silly as floating rocks and gas balls creating the mechanics of the universe, isn't it.
I've never met a scientist that claimed to "know all." If only you really understood the scientific process....
Science does not provide answers. However, based on strong evidence, claims can be made with a specific degree of certainty. Find a doctor who is willing to say you will survive a disease, even if you have a 99.9% survival rate. Religion provides answers for those who are not willing to question.
FAITH makes a virtue out of not thinking!!
You're a moron.
Keep believing in Jesus Christ. It is much easier. We won't bother you.
Science does not claim to have all the answers. That is why scientists use words like "maybe". They are not dogmatic
Religious zealots are the ones who speak of certainty without evidence.
You are also full of excrement too.
" Whereas we believers in our Lord Jesus Christ are humble"
show me one scientist who claims to know it all, or will we have to claim that you are bearing false witness?
Newsflash genius! There has been more bloodshed, non-peace and hypocrisy exacted in the name of religion (Christianity) than you can shake a stick at. While it is certain that all science is not good, it however, is successful at discerning fact from fiction or at the least is constantly working at it.
Christians have been at war with others (see the Crusades) and with themselves (See Ireland) for thousands of years. Please keep the "Come join Christianity, it's all about peace" rhetoric in your pews and out of rational conversation.
let us not forget also that our Deer lord popped out of a virjin. HOLY %%%%!!
Does this find have any implications for finding intelligent life on planet earth? Ancient water? Sounds novel and inventive!!
What makes water old? Does this mean water is being generated and isn't part of the water cycle I learned about in first grade?
Read the article. You missed something.
Water imbedded in rock formations, not part of the water cycle, as you correctly assumed. Being thus "encased", the water has sat in the same location for the billions of years, as calculated from the amount of gases that built up by the natural atomic "decay" of elements. Since most of earth's elements are also the same age, it can be confusing to us lay people when someone says a rock is older or younger than the formations around it or water is older than say water found in the ocean or synthesized by combining Hydrogen and Oxygen molecules in the lab. This is water that has not been subjected to evaporation, seepage, or outside contamination for a long time.
Wow...and to think that there are religious nuts out there who continue to believe that the Earth is only 6000 years old because "the Bible says so."
But it is only 6000 years old...I have a pic with my great great great great great greatgreat great greatgreat great greatgreat great greatgreat great greatgreat great greatgreat great greatgreat great great grandpa riding a T-rex.....
I can verify that.
willful ignorance. the Bible doesn't say that. people have come to their own wrong conclusions however. Most Christians believe in science (at least in my country) even evolution.
She never answered the first question.
What they are not telling you.. is next to the failed iWater, was a prototype for the first iStone along with a hieroglyphic sketch on the wall for iAir.. by an Eve Dobs
You're just jealous that you didn't think of it first.
This is the original recipe for Canada Dry Ginger Ail.
Sales did not go over so well, so they updated the recipe.
Typo: Ginger Ale
The typo makes it work better, I think. This water wouldn't do your body good.
Yossarian, Good one! That is what I meant!
All elements or mass (including what makes up water) are either eternal (they have always been here) or created at some point (something from nothing) Those are the ONLY two choices. Pick one. It make much more sense that God is eternal (and made everything) than matter is eternal. And it would be impossible to know if Jesus hadn't proved he was God.
Amen Brother Ray.
Tell that to the supernova we are studying for the next 5 months, that is 200 billion light years away! What that mean is that it took 200 billion years for the lightwave of the supernova to reach our telescope! And if God created "everything", he must have started at least 200 Billion years ago!
There is no Super Nova 200 Billion light years away. The furthest light away from us is the Cosmic Background Radiation and that is 13 Billions light years away.
This is where we get the date for the creation of the Universe. Many know this event as the Big Bang. A theory invented by Catholic Monks who were scientists, but were rejected by the Establishment at the time because it pointed to a creation movement and thus a Creator.
Science proves how things happened and this is just one more cool fact in that how.
More funding for science please and less for war machines.
The starting point according to science is approximately 13.2 Billion years.
This same number is taught at all the major seminaries in North America and the rest of the world.
The supernova he's probably referring to is 21 million light years away in the Pinwheel Galaxy (M101)
And if God created everything, he must have started... well, that's irrelevant because he can "create" reality, so he could have started anytime along an infinite timeline and we wouldn't know it because God exists outside relativistic time. Think of Him as normally operating outside our perception of reality.
I was using it (200 B) for shock purposes. Plus the fact that I remembered recently the furthest supernova was discovered by the Hubble. But, then I couldn't remember how many billions of light years away it was. I went back and looked it up (http://www.space.com/20509-most-distant-supernova-found.html), and it was 10. Now that I think about it further, the number 13.2 B rings a bell too. So, I'm pretty sure your right.
Either way, it's a hell of a lot more than 10,000 years!
Your preaching to the choir on the 10,000 year thing. I am a Born Again Evangelical Christian with a Masters in Theology from an smaller Conservative Evangelical seminary and there is not a single professor that teaches that the world is 6000 – 10,000 years old. There has not been for over 40 years in most of the seminaries.
Most Evangelical Christians do not believe in a young earth. We all believe in a creator that built and designed with a purpose.
We read Genesis 1 – 11 as a poetic vision of history that teaches deep theological truth and purpose.
Genesis 12 and onward are written in a historical manner about the family of Abraham and God's Covenant with them.
You said "All elements or mass (including what makes up water) are either eternal (they have always been here) or created at some point (something from nothing) Those are the ONLY two choices."
Sorry, you are wrong. A fellow by the name of Albert Einstein discovered (that's called science) this little formula E=MCxC (it should be written C squared, but's it hard to do on the net). To simplify it for you, this formula says that matter and energy are the same thing. Burn some wood, and if you collect all the ashes, all the smoke, gasses and vapors emitted, then weighed them, you would find that a little mass was destroyed-went puff- during combustion-i.e. some mass was converted to energy (heat and light). This formula from Special Relativity has been tested hundreds if not thousands of times, in hundreds of different ways, and it has past ever single test. Every. Single. Test.
In physics, never bet against Einstein!
I'm sorry bro but that's completely untrue. Fire does not convert mass into energy, it's a chemical reaction and no mass would be lost in your assessment.
@Billy, some of the mass is in fact converted to energy. There is a mass equivalent of the binding energy of the covalent molecular bonds which is measurable as inertial mass before burning. And, yes, this has been measured and tested. All chemical bonds involve such a mass-equivalence, just as nuclear bonds do, but the mass-equivalent is lower for checmical bonds as the energy bound up in a chemical bond is less.
If that were the case.. who made "god". It i a circular argument and you failed logic.
Man made God,,,I thought everyone knew that.
Jesus never proved he was god – the Council of Nicea decided he was over 300 years after he died.
How can an area in the crust even exist undisturbed at that age? If true this must be a rare find indeed.
The Canadian Shield is very old rock, among the oldest in the world. This is why so many minerals are found in the Canadian Shield.
Because of the age of the rock, it is possible.
The way that she dated the rock was the presence of Helium Gas present in the water, a process that takes a very long time to occur naturally.
"...somewhere like Mars, any life that formed could have found it's way into similar pockets of water in the Martian crust...", this is something to look forward to as our exploration of our solar system continues. I believe water, in the form of ice, was recently found to exist on the moon.
It really opens up when you drop the main rules that most scientists look for. There's no rule that says life must be made of carbon and water, yet that's what we always look for. Prime reason for this logic is that all life that we know is comprised of these things, but that's just because the planet we were created on is made of these things. Other types of planets would have totally different chemical makeups.
I've been saying this for years. Just because we are carbon based life forms, what makes us so "high and mighty" to declare that is the only thing life can be based on, or made of. Sure, many elements we can identify elements on other planets and galaxies that exist on our own planet. However, by definition, we can't identify elements on other planets, etc., that don't exist on ours because we can't necessarily see them, because we don't know what we're looking for. We, therefore, don't know how to look for it (elements that exist outside of our realm), and we wouldn't know what it was, if we encountered it, because by definition, we've never seen it.
Given the above, we don't know, for example, if there is life on Jupiter. We know it has an atmosphere largely composed of methane gas. We used to think (I hope) the Jupiter was a big ball of gas. However, now we know it's solid at some level into it's core, because several years ago, we saw it get hit a dozen or more times, by a huge asteroid that broke up.
So, what's to say there aren't some sort of life form that uses methane gas? Or may be based upon it?
Carbon is essential for life as we know it because of the fact that it can bond to so many other things, as well as making long chains of carbon atoms. Water is essential for life as we know it because it is an excellent solvent. Silicon-based life is popular in science fiction, but what is left out is the fact that silicon is far less reactive than carbon. That reactivity is what makes carbon so useful.
'There's no rule that says life must be made of carbon and water, yet that's what we always look for'
Scientists know there is no rule that says that, and you are partly correct as to why they search for it but it is slightly different. They look for it not because all life we know requires it but because the life we know for certain exists requires it and thus it is easier for us to look for those signs than to possiby determine other ways of detecting other forms of life.
actually all water is ancient
That is exactly what I was thinking, djdeez. To the best of my knowledge, the vast majority of Earth's water is ancient.
The elements its made of are very old, but the amount of time they've been formed as H2O has some significance.
H2O isn't necessarily ancient... when it forms as rain in the atmosphere it fresh and new. The molecules might be ancient, but then the atoms were formed even before the molecules, etc., and so on.
China can make that water in just 2.6 Seconds . U can't proof its not the same since it contains the same compound as mentioned above
They still have small wieners.
Yes, China can and does make water like this and much more toxic than this all the time!
Lies. Smart people know that an invisible sky jew created everything in 7 days.
You've got some serious pent up hostility.
Actually it was in 6 days. Remember, his asthma kicked in and he had to rest on day 7: the day he was planning to create cold fusion.
This is positive proof that there is a chance that canteens could have been invented around this time...Or Dixie Cups. You need water for both of them...And I'm so glad they can tell how old water is. So are there any signs of evolution in the process in the water...
how do anyone kno how to tell water is 2.6 billion years old....lol thts so stupid,,,,,,,,are thy tht old lol how can someone who is not even 100 years old say tht thi swater is 2.6 billion
Some people are smart. They can do things like design microchips, figure out how to transmit data via light through little plastic cords around the world, and put in screen in front of your face that will show you videos of cats doing silly things. They can also figure out how far away a star is, what the composition of an alien planet's atmosphere is, and some of them can even use the English language correctly.
Some people know the cords are glass and not plastic.
Remember the world is flat. Don't sail near the edge.
Some even learn to read and are not always asking stupid questions.
Just as scientists know how old a rock is, there must be a method to know how old that water is, so just because we do not know how to find out, it does not mean it is stupid. Think, and then exist
people are gullible. They take the word of anyone with a pH D.
The use of carbon-14 dating is often misunderstood. Carbon-14 is mostly used to date once-living things (organic material). It cannot be used directly to date rocks; however, it can potentially be used to put time constraints on some inorganic material such as diamonds (diamonds could contain carbon-14). Because of the rapid rate of decay of 14C, it can only give dates in the thousands-of-year range and not millions.
There are three different naturally occurring varieties (isotopes) of carbon: 12C, 13C, and 14C.
"people are gullible. They take the word of anyone with a Bible" (fixed)
Also... if as you claim, carbon dating places the dates down to the thousand, as opposed to the million, that makes it MORE accurate. That's like saying "I got the time down to the second", meaning, I am extremely accurate.
C-dating only works with once living things because it measures the ratio of C12 to C14 after an organism has stopped taking in carbon (dies). All living organisms take in the same amounts of these atoms. C14 decays at a known rate. C12 doesn' decay.
Because of the half life it is accurate up to about 60K years (I forget the lower limit). When something can't be dated using C14 scientists can move onto different isotopes.
You can't use this sort of dating on things that never lived (like diamonds) for several reasons. First off, diamonds tend to be billions of years old, way off of the 60K upper limit for C14 dating. Secondly, they never "took in" carbon, so there is no way to read a ratio. The little bit of C14 found in diamonds is probably from nitrogen decay (it's a contaminant) or C13 taking on an extra electron.
However, you can use C13 dating on diamonds (ratio of C12 to C13).
you know carbon-14 dating is just one dating method used right?
What's stupid is someone who glosses over the article and then posts in ignorance.
Ah, the wonders of bliss. :-)
oh wow,this is REALLY going to help us.A billion year old water.....
Said NO ONE EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
...and people say there's nothing wrong with the American education system.
Just wait until the moronic "TL;DR" crowd starts making it into congress 0_o
Do you feel better now?
makes one think if there are mines on other planets ( that cotain water or possible signs of water) that might and i'm sure there water like waiting to be found. giving us ( all humans no matter race or color) more knowledge on the vast and forever expanding universe and helping us find new ways of living and expanding... After all its our human nature to explore.... to ask why and how does it work... with the touch of i want it and how can i get it bc its epic and baller lol ( last part was a joke enjoy everyone ^_^ )
Please don't say Moses used the same process to extract water from the rock.
It sounds like a great idea for the "New new testament".
I wonder if this tenured genius could give us an accurate weather forecast a month out?
Never mind. At least he can tell us what happened 3.5bn years ago.
Ain't entropy annoying.
As this genius isn't a meterologist, I doubt it's in his job description.
That passes as some form of logic for you does it i-spy?
Entropy isn't what it used to be.
"it is too salty to drink (it is a brine), and the gas .. is a mixture of methane, hydrogen, nitrogen and helium"
Sounds perfect to allow life to form.
So, what is the magic solution for supporting life?
J, you gave the right answer to the wrong question. 42 is not the answer to everything. Just to the ultimate question.
Actually, It is the answer to Life, Universe and Everything. What we don't know is the ultimate question itself...
I can not, believe some of the comments on this article... Really? 10,000 years old? Really? It is no longer a wonder as to why we in a America score near the bottom of the list in almost every category of Education, English, Math, Science, social studies, History – Pretty soon, We are going look like a Third world country. Ridiculous...
We may not be smort, butt we mak the bestest bombs, fastest plaans, and the buggest boats.
I bet I can pee farther than you!
ummmmm, Hasn't all water in the Earth been here for about 3.8-billion years?
True, but this tells us what contaminants there were in the water, way back then. Obviously, it wasn't nice pure water.
No. "New" water is formed every time a hydrogen bearing compound is burned or oxidizes. 2H + O = H2O.
Let me know when they find the scotch to go with it.
Only a fool puts water in scotch.
Only a fool drinks his Scotch without a wee bit of water...
Obviously we have somebody parroting a myth they heard another parroting. If you like good scotch, it gets water... always.
@ whoever–I drink my whiskey neat but scotch needs a splash of water and a couple of ice cubes.
Well, an expedition to Antarctica recently found a few bottles of 102 year old Mackinlay buried at Shakelton's base. The company took a sample to recreate the recipe. Will that do?
ahhh...the mother ship at last.
No way! We all know the Earth is only 10,000 years old! The Bible is the only real truth!
I doubt that Newt took the time to comment on this. However the statement is true. The premise of this article is a lie. Since God created the earth less than 10,000 years ago it is impossible for water to be older than that. The one exception for that is that the water was from another dimension (where God lives) and he put old water in those rocks. While unlikely, that is actually possible.
I also believe that Dorthy clicked her heals three times and was transported back to Kansas.. the Wizard of Oz told me so.
Which god are we talking about here? Personally, I suspect this water is probably the doing of Tefnut.
didnt god create the water before the land?
Oh, and thanks for bringing the collective progress of the human mind to a halt. I'll appreciate that when creationist doctors try to cure cancer with praying.
Haha, you're a joke. Go away.
Yes as everyone knows the devil scattered dinosaur bones around to confuse us.
. . . and he established half-lives in almost all materials that makes it look like these materials have been here for far longer. That tricky devil. Next you'll be telling me the sun DOESN'T come up in the morning due to Ra's will and the moon isn't actually the Goddess Luna moving through the sky. LOL what kind of moron would think the moon ISN'T a goddess? I mean really.
Don't forget all the anthropologists, paleontologists and archaeologists that willing participate in the vast Satanic conspiracy that is science ;)
Hey Einstein, no where in the Bible does it speculate or say how old the earth is. Try reading, you may learn something.
Amen to that brother. All them communistic, atheistic, liberals better stop readin them sayence books before I come after em with my guns. Fore they be tryin to take em away. Who care is if I have to kill em, they was goin to hell anyways and it will all be in the name of JESUS. And for all you darned foreign illegal immigrants in the country who don't know anything bout your rights this aint illegal cause the second amendment grants me the right to do whatever I feel like (Its a free country) and by 15th amendment to the Decleration of Independence I have the right to freedom of religion. Means that I have the right to force everyone to follow my religion so they can be free of sin. Here that guys and gals usin condoms so that you don't gets the HIV, your next.
P.S. This was a joke. I know that it can sometimes be hard to tell because some people really are this ignorant.
"Life was established on Earth by 3.5 billion years ago (Earth itself is 4.56 billion years old)." Kind of makes us humans feel small and insignificant.
I'm sorry Roscoe, life on earth is less than 10,000 years old. You know the story, "In the beginning, God created Heaven and Earth. Then plants and animals and eventually man. Do you really believe that life has been around for 3.6 billion years? That thought is actually quite ignorant. It would be impossible to come up with a way to measure that.
"in the beginning, God created Heaven and Earth..." Shortly after that God had a bunch of people write a book of self-serving misconceptions about Earth, nature and life for gullible morons to use a a manifest in am effort to extract huge amounts of money from them and provide an excuse to kill, maim and torture those not quite as naive.
It is absolutely impossible to tell the difference between snark and fundamentalism any more. I think that this person must be joking but then again, there are people that believe this 10,000 year-old earth stuff but it really must be a joke right?
I have no problem understanding natural laws and physics but the mind of a fundamentalist baffles me.
No. You're ignorant. There are many ways to measure the age of the water, and the earth. Everything from carbon dating to molecular structure. And the earth is a hell of a lot older than 10,000 years! Where do people come up with that number anyway? I don't recall anything in the Bible containing dates of "the beginning".
J-Man – Believing that the earth is 10,000 years old when ALL scientific evidence says otherwise is IGNORANT! If you truly believe this, then you should not pick and choose what aspects of science you want to believe and what you don't. This thing called the Internet and website you're posting on is all possible because of scientific just as the age of rocks can be determined by scientific methods such as carbon and radiometric dating.
So feel free to live with your believe that the earth is only 10,000 years old, but if you do so you should live like an Amish person and choose to not indulge in any of the benefits science brings. No cars, planes, modern medicine etc. etc. etc.
You know, the bible has to be wrong-plants had to come first, otherwise there was nothing for man to eat. And since an apple tree does not bear fruit until it is at least 4-5 years old, the tree had to be created first. Thus, we have proven the bible wrong. Ok, now that that is over, let's move on to solving world peace, or is that whirled peas?
So much irony. So much stupidity. It hurts. Make it go away.
"the gas instead of carbon dioxide is a mixture of methane, hydrogen, nitrogen and helium!"
The gas mix alone screams primordial soup. Really intriguing. At first I assumed it a was a tiny amount found in a rock. Large pockets really does change the prospect of life surviving long term, perhaps billions of years in deep pockets. The acid test will be if ancient life can be found in the water.
"and the gas instead of carbon dioxide is a mixture of methane, hydrogen, nitrogen and helium!"" – Bottoms up!
Its called the Water Cycle people! Every drop of water on the planet has been here as long as this puddle...
You missed the entire point of the article. The water they found hasn't been recycled and put through the water cycle in 1.5-2.5 billion years.
Not exactly, steve. Water is readily transformed into its gaseous elements and also is created. The electrolysis of water releases hydrogen and oxygen and new water is formed by burning hydrocarbons. Water is one of the products coming out of the exhaust pipes of automobiles.
The interesting feature of this article is that the water discovered has apparently been trapped for billions of years.
Not entirely true. Many, many biological reactions create significant amounts of water.
Yep. I just made a yellow river from a biological reaction.
Perhaps just a taste would be safe. I'm curious.
Its probably the cleanest water in the world. Id drink it hell yea! No human contaminants
. . . no. It's among the most disgusting thing you would ever drink. Everytime water is evaporated and flys back up into the clouds it's getting purified. This stuff has been in the bottom of a cave leeching junk out of these rocks for nearly 3 billion years. Rainwater is 1000x cleaner than this stuff.
Oh, come on scientists. It hasn't been THAT long since I cleaned out my refrigerator.
way cool! finally something interesting instead of that fake NASA stuff.
Fake NASA stuff? LOL. I'm guessing you are in, what, 4th grade?
As fake as your conception was.
At 4:32-pm, you should be doing homework instead of using your Mommy's computer.
Microwave ovens and memory-foam are certainly NASA myths.
Like that one NASA myth about a big rock floating around the world, and then have the nerve to say it's the Moon. I tell ya, those NASA dudes are full of it!
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