Meteorite has highest water content of any from Mars, scientists say
By Elizabeth Landau, CNN
A team of scientists has established a whole new class of meteorites that seems to have come from Mars' crust, based on a rare sample from 2.1 billion years ago.
The newly analyzed meteorite has more water than any other Martian meteorite that we know of, by a magnitude of more than 10, said Carl Agee, lead study author and director of the Institute of Meteoritics at the University of New Mexico. Agee and colleagues published their analysis of the meteorite in the journal Science Express.
"There are thousands and thousands of meteorites, and so far this is the only one like it," Agee said.
This is a volcanic rock that was probably part of an eruption, and interacted with water to the extent that some water got incorporated into the structure of the minerals, Agee said. "That's why we're able to see it after a couple of billion years," he said.
Read more: Rover finds evidence of ancient water on Mars
The precise source of the water in the meteorite is unknown. It could have come from a lake or stream, or ground water that a volcano intruded into, Agee said. Alternatively, the water could have come from frozen Martian tundra that melted when hot volcanic material moved through it.
"We do know that there was a significant amount [of water] available," he said.
Agee and colleagues were able to extract water from the meteorite by putting it into a vacuum-sealed tube and heating it up. Using a mass spectrometer, they were able to determine that the gas released from the heated meteorite was water vapor.
"That vapor is true Martian water that is, sort of like, being awakened" after many years, he said. "We’re pulling it out of the rock."
Read more: What we've done on Mars, and what's next
Agee's meteorite is similar to the type of rocks that NASA spacecraft have found on the surface of Mars in terms of its chemical composition. This is the first meteorite that's a good match to those rocks on Mars today.
The meteorite's age also makes it unique, Agee said. It from 2.1 billion years ago, making it the second-oldest sample that we have. The oldest is the Alan Hills meteorite, discovered in Antarctica in 1984, which is 4.5 billion years old. All other samples have been much younger.
Right now, Mars is cold and dry, inhospitable for life, Agee said. But many scientists believe the environment used to be warm and wet and that somewhere in its history the planet lost its atmosphere and surface water. When and how that happened are big mysteries.
"This meteorite is a sample from that transitional period, perhaps," Agee said. "Because of the water that's present in it, it may be giving us a glimpse of what the surface conditions were like, as well."
The rare Mars rocks came from Morocco. There are nomads in that country who make a living by scouring the Sahara Desert for the dark, black rocks that have fallen from space, Agee explains. They bring these meteorites into towns and sell them to a dealer. Then the dealer sells them internationally to collectors, museums and scientists.
When Agee realized how rare and important his first sample was, he wanted to know if there were more. The meteorite hunters have since recovered a few more pieces.
The biggest piece of this Martian meteorite fits into the palm of your hand and weighs 320 grams (about 11 ounces), Agee said. There are two samples in his lab and two more in Paris.
"It's going to be real interesting to see if there are more that are recovered," he said. "But I think that this particular type is going to be extraordinarily rare."
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Ok. So when meteorites enter the atmosphere they get really hot. Now these folks say they heated the thing up and got water vapor from it. Where do you think the water came from, Mars or Morocco?
Scientists just fell for the equivalent of Nigerian scam. Only this time it came from Morocco.
Troll, do us all a favor and DISAPPEAR
So can you correct a brain surgeon like how you can a planetary geologist?
Well at least Morocco is a desert...
Holy crap, Bronko is still here belaboring this freakin' thing. Dedication, or ADD? Can't decide.
When a bigger meteorite like this (big enough to survive to the ground) enters the Earth's atmosphere, only it's outer surface gets heated to high temperatures. We've found fater, but much lower amounts, on other Mars meteorites.
"The meteorite's age is also of interest to scientists. Most of the SNC meteorite samples date to only around 1.3 billion years ago, "
Basically what they are saying Mars was a wet and wild climate as early as 1.3 billion years ago, that is a departure of past claims. Life on earth started in the oceans over 3.7 billion years ago. Our atmosphere was too toxic for life including plant life until 700 million years ago, the ozone layer was created just 550 million years ago look how far we came in 700 million years...
Nobody is saying that. What is being said is that in the environment the rock formed there was ten times more water and also somewhat more oxygen. The landscape might still have been as bitter as the current one on Mars.
So what happened to all Mars' water?
The answer is simple. Mars was going through some Martian-made global warming. Unfortunately a number of the less intelligent Martians denied it was happening. These less intelligent Martians really had no valid reason to doubt it and could offer no proof to the contrary, but they were great at yelling loudly and ended up taking over one of the main 2 Martian political parties. Anyway, yada yada yada. Fast forward a few decades, and bam! No atmosphere. Wiped them all out.
Good point.
....except there has never been any life on Mars.... ever. Of course with no atmosphere to hold the water on the planet, then maybe that is why it never got a chance to develop..... or could be there are other reasons that life never got going on Mars. Somehow the Earth was very lucky. Maybe it has to do with Mars being in a locked orbit, or lack of a molten core, so that radiation was never shielded and live never had a chance? Too many what if's to account for.... and maybe curiosity just needs more time to dig in the ice on Mars, or dig deeper to find any hints of mold or fungus.
now explain this, why does mars have almost no greenhouse gasses? it is incredibly cold there...
Stupid denialism.
Two things happened to Mars water: It has no global magnetosphere left, so it is constantly losing it's water to space as solar wind erodes the Martian atmosphere, as Phobos 2 probe showed in 1989. Part, a large part, of water is in the polar caps, in large glaciers that have been found in recent years even on the equator, under a level of soil that protects them. It's expected that there are also significant amounts of water underground, possibly including aquifers.
What a joke. Just give it up already.
Another one:)
tinyurl.com/ba7va59
On this one you can even see the mars landscape LOL
Who can tell if it is a camel dropping in the desert or a rock on mars?
There is a picture of one of the stones cut up. Looks like the camel ate straw or grass 🙂
tinyurl.com/b3ukxwj
It's been found in the desert, remember.....
Even the size is right.... 10 cm diameter could be easily be a camel dropping. Horses can make that big, why not camels?
I SWEAR, I am not kidding now. I have googled camel poop and they look exactly like these rocks. Even the color is the same. If you don't believe me, google camel poop/images.
I think it would be HILARIOUS if scientists at NASA would be examining camel droppings and they would be displayed in our museums.
tinyurl.com/afg3upg
You are far to interested in the anal region of a camel.
Not so much that I would write articles about it and examine them for millions of dollars 🙂
OK, good luck with that. Back to your bong, you will be fine.
so are you saying camels live on Mars? because it matches the kind of rocks found by the Mars rover.
No, I am saying it has never been on Mars. It has been in the backside of a camel. And the desert sand could have the same effect on it as a mars sand would on a material. It is plain and simple a petrified camel sh t.
you have to be high off your gourd if you think this is freakin camel poop. Or maybe you're just blind....I find it hilarious that when, per your suggestion, I googled "camel poop," not one image even came close to the appearance of these rocks. Come join us back here in reality, why don't you.
Two words – Joe Dirt
Fear will get you know where in the math, science and technology fields. But in religion it will generate buckets of money and open many doors. Don't be fool by the bible thumpers. Either they are calling out all of the educational demons for a front row seat in heaven or because fear is their path to riches. Either way you look at it, it is very self serving and benefits no one but the ones pushing it.
Can you send me more details. I want to start a cult but is the big money going to come from Patriotic Christianity cults or Prosperity Ministries in the coming years? Thanks... I mean PRAISE Jeeeeeeezus...
They found it in the desert.... It must be petrified camel poop 🙂
Can any truly informed person tell us what the evidence is that we truly kn ow these rocks are from Mars? Their fall was not witnessed I take it. No rocks on Earth have this type of composition ? Is that true? No meteors whose fall has been observed have this composiition? Please refer us to a web site or journal article that will explain this. Thank you.
The internet has a neat little tool called "Google".
Google camel poop!
HEY, now I know what a twinkie looks like in a hundred years!!!!! 🙂
OMG.....morons and more morons. There is far more evidence that these meteorites are what they are claimed to be...than there is for..say ...GOD. And think about it....has the CHURCH ever been right about anything?! They don't have to be. All they have to do is "believe." Pretty easy time of it huh?!
And evolution theory can be proven? Or are we supposed to just believe it? What evolution theory is proving is that modern man hasn't been around for more than 70,000 years.
I think you need to read another book – Finches, Moths, Fruit Flies, they all show evolution in progress, and there is evidence, but you would have to read another book or two to see that.
The over simplified evolution theory we were taught in SCHOOL showing a monkey gradually turning into a man is not proven, in fact it has been shown to be not true
No credible person actually believes we evolved from monkeys. We aren't even in the same genus. Evolutionary theory is yes a theory but one highly supported by the evidence, same as the "theories" used in construction etc. Too often people apply their own misconceptions to evolutionary theory and it ends up being something easily disproven, when in reality it is not.
Actually if you understood anything what so ever about evolution you would know that we did not come from monkeys. And yes there is proof that evolution exists. You may or may not receive a flu shot every year ? Have you ever asked yourself why ? Maybe you should. Have people with better dietary habits grown larger, or taller ? Have you ever wondered why some cultures are shorter and lighter that other cultures ? You may think it is because the gravity is stronger on that side of the planet but you would be wrong. There are evolutionary changes happening around us all the time. Some are just to blind to notice, or care. It is far to easy to not think about it and right it all off as a mystery, or as gods handy work, which it might be ? Have you ever asked yourself why the atomic accident sight at Chernobyl will not be inhabitable for another 20000 years ? Do you think it in 10 years they will be building condos there ? No they will not. Why do they bury nuclear waste ? I suggest doing a little bit or reading and you may understand why radio carbon dating is accurate enough to make estimates as to how long man has been around. But I guess you could always take the easy way out and say god speeds up atomic decay to trick us. Its all trickery and sorcery, history tells us we have heard that tune before.
@Rogue: One thing Hiroshima and Nagasaki has shown is that the environment disperses the radioactivity very fast. I wouldn't be surprised to see Chernobyl being occupied in 20-30 years.
Regarding evolution as a hypothesis: the problem is that it is a non-falsifiable hypothesis. You can never disprove it. Therefore, it is not a scientific hypothesis.
@Gregg: you have used a "no true scotsman" fallacy.
I think that was Gregg's way of telling us he is not credible because he thinks that we evolved from monkeys.
The Universe is as we observe it. There is no god toying with our perceptions to fool us into believing something that isn't there. If there is a god (it) is unconcerned with our day to day lives. Be yourselves, look not to the afterlife for satisfaction for it does not exist. Look instead toward this life and the good you may do in the here and now.
How come everything comes from Mars only? Apparently we came from there, I can think of any other reason why we keep going back, we came here from Mars? What was our language and why didn't we keep on teaching our children, space is a waste of time, technology has gone as far as it can go, everything that we have invented will only improve but the leap into warp drive like Star Trek is fiction.
wow, you are under educated. Dangerously so.
Science and space exploration is proving how supernatural the Earth is.
I don't suppose "everything" comes from Mars, I'm even a little skeptical of how they know these came from Mars. But is it so far fetched to think that things can travel through space? Knocked out of place by a cataclysmic event? Or God put it there to fool us,,,
I choose to believe that God puts everything here to be consistent for us and to our science. I wouldn't begrudge him the occasional practical joke. But of course he's not messing about. That's us again. I think, therefore I am? Sure, but you might not be all that there 'is.' René was clear on that.
Realist many people have explained to you how several times. there is no plot to deceive everyone. if you do not believe in science where does your information come from. I believe this info to be true but is someone disagrees that's ok. why all the hate from everyone. can someone explain all the hate. also if my grammar is bad please forgive me. I have seen much backlash for that too. best wishes to ALL no mater who you are or what you believe in.
Science is like another religion with a bunch of haters
Science is subject to self examination and constant revision, religion is not. Dogma is static and unchanging, or worse, changes to fit (a) man's agenda.
Spirituality is all about self examination and it changes throughout a lifetime. Science hasn't disproven anything except for previous science. If science followers (I am one) are going to use science to ridicule other beliefs then they deserve a better explanation for life than what we've been told.
Did the little rock say, "I am from Mars", rather than from Arkansas?
"Did the little rock say, "I am from Mars", rather than from Arkansas?"
Does one's DNA say it is from 'Tom' and not 'Alexandra.' Of course not. Neither DNA in cells, nor Oxygen isotopes in meteorites can talk. So we can never understand them.
I am certain that thousands of years ago there was some guy saying, why oh why do you keep pounding on that stone. It will never serve a purpose. If it was meant to be a different god would have created it. However, clear creative minds prevailed and the wheel was born. God did not create the wheel, man did. God may have given man the ability to create the wheel, we may never know. But since the dawn of time man has been inventing and exploring. Those who think we should just stop are as short sighted and narrow minded as the cave man. Creation and discovery defines us as a civilization. Just as stopping now would define us in future history as failures and elitists, thinking we had all the answers, had discovered everything and excepted that we as a people can go no further. Instead of putting more and more money into war. We as a nation should be putting 10 times that amount into education, math and science. Your ignorance is offensive and far to common place. Yet another reason to better educate our children.
C'mon, I was just punning around. Don't get too serious.
People will believe anything as long as you say there is "scientific evidence". This is pure hogwash to campaign for Nasa's budget. A good part of that 20 trillion debt was shot into space. Its important, but not that important.
The percentage of the US Federal budget spent on Nasa has been shrinking since 1991. In 2008, it was 0.60%, and in 2012 it was estimated to be 0.48%. That works out to $17.3B in 2008 and $17.8B in 2012. Yep, that sure is a large portion of $20T...
NASA is going to publish "hogwash" as part of a master plan to justifiy their budgeted allocation of Federal funds? Try pulling your head out of your azz!
Hey Marcus, what school awarded you your PhD in planetary geology?
It's more important than your pointless war in Iraq. I'd rather see money blasted into space than innocent kids in Iraq so you clowns can get your oil. How many weapons of mass destruction were found again? Oh right about the average American's IQ – 0
I'd rather 1 million generational welfare bums DIE than cutting the modest budget of the space program. However, NASA needs to be reminded of that mandate, so THEY don't end up squandering all their money and efforts looking down at Earth instead of UP.
Their discovery was mostly chance (few were seen in the act of falling) but their dark forms mean they will have caught the eye of meteorite hunters who scour desert sands and polar ice fields for rare rocks that can trade for tens of thousands of dollars. (BBC)
Tens of thousands of dollars!!!! I just found a new hobby. I will be hunting mars meteors.
I need to know how they know it's from Mars. Otherwise, this sounds very silly.
because NASA needs funding?
In 1976 one of the tasks the Viking landers undertook was to sample the Martian atmosphere.Suspect rocks on Earth are tested internally for the same atmospheric "finger print".....
The article states: "That vapor is true Martian water that is, sort of like, being awakened" after many years, he said. "We’re pulling it out of the rock."
Moses struck the rock (told to by God) and water came gushing out! This was to assuage the thirst of the Israelites. Now this water can only satisfy our physical thirst but, Jesus who came one thousand years later (the Christian master) came to inform us that there is water that satisfies beyond the physical need and that is spiritual! Jesus is also known as a “Rock” but, this refers to His ability to communicate a spiritual essence that far surpasses the physical capacity that only lasts for a short while. Awake thou that sleepiest and be truly informed of our true essence and look unto our spiritual essence. Jesus said the “Kingdom of God is within”. So, instead of traversing the vast regions of space look “within” and find the true water that does not perish! Were by nature ignorant of our true heritage and keep looking too the external things for answers that can never reveal our true nature. Come out from under your “rocky heart” and bring forth the true water that satisfies to the “true being of our character” and not just the physical vessel that is only the external and very temporal means of glorifying God. Awaken to the true water and live life as it was meant too be!!!!
Excuse my grammar, I have the equivalent grade level of approximately a sixth grader or less. Hope you get the point! God speaks to those who have an internal receptivity.
Here's an article. How can I twist it into a soapbox to push my beliefs on others?
This is a science article. Please go back to fairy tales.
"That sounds about right...." said NO ONE EVER. COO-COO for Cocoa PUFFS
A casual stroll in a lunatic asylum proves that there is no god,especially that you don't see any christians or catholics or other religious fools in it either.
thank you one and all! the comments were even more entertaining than the article 🙂
@jayrockbike. So you have found something that resembles to stuff you can find on Mars and you have concluded it must have come from there. Sorry, but you jumped to conclusions. In a case like this there are two possibilities.
1. The rock came from Mars, travelled millions of miles and ended up here (extremely unlikely)
2. You were wrong and the material does not exist exclusively on Mars. (Lot more likely, but you would have admitted you were wrong assuming it was)
Just a question. Have you guys consider Possibilit #2, just for 5 minutes before you decided you are sure it came from Mars? Of course, that would have meant that you would have admitted that you are just scratching your balls for hte high salary you are getting and people would have been deprived of a dream. Many people who make a living showing, working with, talking about these Mars Stones would have lost income....
Admit that you are not that sure, but you go along with the status quo because you have a mortgate to pay.
Yes Bronko, many potential sources of provenance for the meteorites have been considered. Thousands of analyses have been conducted. I cannot teach you all the details of stable isotope geochemistry here on this board. If you are truly interested you can teach yourself some basic isotope geochemistry using google and wikipedia. I suggest you do so. Finally, scientists and professors make spartan salaries, especially considering the typical 60 to 80 hour work weeks that typify this profession. Most pursue science careers because we get to do the coolest things in the world! Is often borne out of basic curiosity.
Holy crap, I heard right, there's a blowhard over here acting crazy. Dude I was reading your posts and...maybe you should just get a hobby that isn't...this. You're wrong. It's ok to be wrong. You're not going to die from it.
wow, admit I am not as ridiculous than those who claim that piece of rock came from Mars.
Take some science courses. And then get involved in research. You'll see how ridiculous your comments are.
You are an idiot with no concept of possibility.... A rock from Mars CAN end up here from millions of miles by being blasted by certain forces on Mars or from space. The rocks could also contain gases on Mars or bacteria inside of it from Mars OR Iron Oxide.
I fully agree with the point Bronko is trying to make. From what I gather, he is trying to say "I'm an idiot"
Canada, "I am the alpha and the Omega". Jim Carrey?
Science! Get chu some!
I found a rock in the field behind my house. It was unique and I realized since it didn't look like all the other rocks in the area it was from the moon. I know this because I spent 100k on an education that made me right. Now I can sell this rock to a museum and they can claim its from the moon billions of years ago. Also I found a tree made from cat doo doo. It is a furry tree and has lots of thorns. I will call it meow tree.
Cat doo doo between timpanic membranes
END OF LINE
Your main thrust seems to be that all scientists are frauds. Does that include the thousands of scientists whose discoveries made possible the computer you are trolling from?
Yes, you are right.
Spending money on education is a waste of time. How do we know that the professors are not just making up all that stuff?
What a joke education is.
Well....I gotta get back to flippin' burgers.
Education. Bah!
The Chinese can have it. Lotta good it will do them.
Sorry to re-post but the comments are getting mucked up with nonsense. So, here's a bit that is true.
Hey Bronko, you are uninformed but you are writing as if you know what you're talking about. However, your comments clearly demonstrate your ignorance. I won't address the mater of age in this comment. I focus on the water issue here.
In most cases the 'water' occurs as hydroxyl ions (i.e. OH-) that are structurally bound in the crystalline lattices of the minerals that compose the rock. That is, the 'water' is bonded to silicon, oxygen, magnesium and iron ions in the minerals. In other cases actual water is actually trapped as small droplets of water–these are called fluid inclusions. In either case the the 'water' can be retained essentially for eternity. The minerals are not easily decomposed to release the water and fluid inclusions are may not be completely decrepitated during natural high P-T events. The scientists are able to release the water by heating the minerals in the meteorite until they melt, thereby completely releasing any water or hydroxyl contained structurally or as fluid inclusions. Go read it for yourself!
We know that the meteorites are from Mars because they have oxygen isotopic compositions that are identical to those measured in the Martian atmosphere by the Viking mission. The Martian meteorite oxygen isotopic compositions are distinct from other sources. Simple.
And there is no way that those oxygen isotopic compositions could also exist on earth? How do you know?
Mars has higher concentrations of CO2 and other elements. All of which were trapped in the rock itself. This is how they identified the same amount of molecules to that of Mars.
Those oxygen isotopes do exist on earth, just not in those concentrations, as so far discovered. If you say "maybe" we will find them someday in those concentrations, it's like saying "maybe" someday we'll find aliens living two miles beneath New York City. We might, but it's highly unlikely.
Thanks.
Wow, what a total troll fest this turned out to be. Shame.
“In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual.”
― Galileo Galilei
Another individual below gave you more information of why they know the meteorite is from Mars and why the water is most likely from Mars.
Other people here thinking they are more smarter than some scientist and yet they have nothing in their pockets to support their claims. It sounds you are only a frustrated scientist and whatsoever.
I never claimed I was a scientist.
Are you going to start reasoning soon??
Very cool article. I'd love to go meteorite hunting in Morocco... bet those stones would bring in some big buck$.
You can get lots of them pretty cheap on Ebay. Not worth as much as other meteorites since there is not much information about where they were found etc. They are usually called NWAs for North West Africa.
Yes, Nigerian kings are selling them:)
In my opinion, this is junk science, and I've been writing journal articles for 30 years. First, a chunk of rock leaving the surface of Mars is next to impossible without an extremely large impact from another body. That's the first huge flaw in this theory. Second, if there was such an impact, the particle that escaped the gravity of Mars could have been from that other body, maybe a commet; and commets are known to have water. Third, if the metorite has been here for the last 2.5 billion years, there would be no way to know if the water came with it or if it was absorbed after earth impact. My conclusion is that the writers of these silly-assed articles have two motives, which are 1) fueling their fantasey's and 2) justifing more federal funding to keep themselves working.
Did you by any chance see the actual scientific paper on this that was published? You don't have to, you could actually just read up more on...comets.
Thank you, thank you, thank you:)
I have no formal education, but came up with the same reasoning.
It is tiring to argue with science fanatics. They can be real jerks.
for somebody who claims to write "journal articles" you might want to buy yourself a dictionary or at least run your spell checker. "commets"? should have only 1 M. "metorite" should be 'meteorite'. "fantasey's" should be 'fantasies'... I don't pick on someone's argument for bad spelling- i don't think it's fair to do that. But you opened the door on this one by claiming to be a journal writer, didn't you? In fact, i find some of your arguments plausible, but barely so. I especially like your argument about money-grubbing scientists, though i think it more specially applies to so-called 'medical' researchers, who've used up trillions of dollars not finding cures for much of anything.
You lost me when you failed to spell comet correctly. The JUNK is between your ears, fool.
wut du yu meen speling comits imcurektlee?
Robert – what is a "commet"? For someone who has 30 years of journal experience (touting yourself as a man of science, essentially), you are awfully dismissive.
You are right. One more reason to support your statement is how high the temperature of the meteorites went through the atmosphere? May be much higher than they can heat it up the rock in their lab. Then how can they determine the water content after that? The NASA scientists are very bold to bs.
Psuedo-scientist – look at the meteorite. It's charred. Ever heard of an ablative heat shield. See if you can make a connection. I'll help you out. The Apollo space craft had ablative shielding. The interior of the space craft stayed nice and cool during re-entry even though the outside got very, very hot.
Now, go learn about how water can coordinate (this is a big fancy chemistry term that you'll have to look up) and/or react with metal ions. Sometimes, the water doesn't want to de-coordinate – even at elevated temperatures!! I have not read the paper on these meteorites, but I find it amusing and infuriating that so many people are posting as though they are authorities on geology and chemistry. And people wonder if America has lost its way. With so much hate and stupidity as evidenced by the comments here . . . of course it has lost its way.
ah. long ago and far away there were some fools who told scientists they were wrong when they said Earth goes around the Sun. they burned people at the stake for saying this, in spite of the science. today, we know the speed of light and we can use geometry and trigonometry to measure distance. almost anybody can do this. so that tells us there are stars which are BILLIONS of years old, because we know how long it took the light to reach us. and still, the fools want us to believe the universe is only a few thousand years old because they say so. it is stupid to oppose science. Science is part of what divides us from the beasts. God gave us science for our upliftment.
Not to dispute the science, justintime99, but nobody was "burned at the stake" for claiming the earth revolves around the sun. Galileo caught some heat, but it amounted to censure and being required to make a humiliating apology. He was the victim of an intrachurch dispute. It doesn't justify the incident, but merely explains the context. Copernicus made the same claim without the same consequences.
They have burnt Giordano Bruno at the stake for the same reason.
How could stars be "BILLIONS" of years old, when Jebus only invented the universe exactly 6,000 years ago?
It's in the bible. Somewhere. Someone told me.
Why don't you just say that you are soooooo anxious to meet other life forms out there that you are mad at everybody who is trying to rob you of the experience? LOL
You simply MUST believe that a piece of petrified mammoth poop came from Mars. ROFL
Just like Christians will kill you if you tell them the piece of sack is not Jesus' shrine. You are on the same level.
What is wrong with believing there might be life out there? There is a possibility that life exists in the universe. Why are you so bent out of shape when people believe there is a possibility of life?
Of course there is a possibility. But a piece of black rock with a little water in it is no proof. You guys JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS.
Are you insane? Who the hell said this rock was proof of life? No one was being serious about that. There really is something wrong with you.
If they find water in a meteorite or on another planet then the possibility of life out there as increased dramatically. Because all life has basic water molecules and if there are water molecules out there in the universe then it means other planets may have life on them.
Hey Muckabee read some science in high school
Don't you get enough attention? You have to keep making post after post to keep yourself the focus of the comments? Or is it too hard to hit 'reply'? Don't get me wrong, you are comedy gold. I like watching idiots implode.
HM, people can tell me I am wrong until they are red in the face. I am only interested in arguments.
You're interested in throwing juvenile fits until someone calls you out on it. Shoo, already.
YOU GUYS DON'T REALIZE THAT YOU ARE SO DUMB THAT YOU ARE ON THE LEVEL OF RELIGIOUS FANATICS. Both of you are impossible to reason with.
Shh shh shhh, get your blankie and some warm milk and write in your journal, that always helps you.
Your minds are so closed that it is painful to watch.
Bronko your mind is closed because you would rather chat with individuals on a blog rather then a real scientist.
"HERP A DERP IT CAN'T EXIST ON MARS AND EARTH AT THE SAME TIME"
It's amazing. Everyone keeps telling you you're wrong, and you are the only one who thinks otherwise. Go soak your head and see if it'll pick up some water molecules.
Reason with? Why would you try to reason with a troll you buffoon.
Too bad there are only imbeciles wanting to time travel here. I would love to ask real scientists a few questions.
They would love to hear from you. When you finally make sense. Maybe on your next middle school field trip, they'll let you ask some questions.
then go ask instead of trolling the blog.
Hehe:) I always know when I am right. When others run out of arguments and start calling me names I must be right LOL LOL LOL
It's more like no one can get through to you because you're so wound up on ritalin, so there's nothing left to do but troll you back. Why don't you run along, now that you're so smart and proud and can prove it to everyone?
It is actually hilarious because no one said you were right or wrong. Shows how dumb you are.
It's like he can't stop overreacting until he's folded back on his own non-logic. Then the smiley faces and 'LOL'. I think he's maybe 12.
Most likely.
BTW, smarty pants, that water trapped inside of that rock NEVER got heated up during the billions of years so that it either had to escape OR had to blow up the rock.... And NEVER froze during the ice ages so that it would have created cracks in it.
We all know that you can't confine water in a closed space very long. (Just in case you wonder why, this is what the steam engine is based on) Believe me YOU ARE DUMB not me.
Wow you are just a troll. I was just trollin you to see how uneducated you really are, but I guess you are to dumb to realize that.
Looks like you have no arguments and start insulting me. How about explaining to me why is what I am saying wrong?
My God Bronko you are dumb. I was TROLLIN you. Holy mackeral stop crying like a child. Yes, you are most definitely uneducated to not notice that someone is trollin you.
You are not only DUMB but also mean if you call me names without telling me what is wrong with my reasoning.
Holy crap. I'm not even going to bother talking to you anymore. Obviously you have no clue what trolling is and are completely clueless.
Also it is hilarious how you avoid the individual called Bob who basically explained to you on how scientists know the water isn't from earth.
OK, where is Bob? I want him to explain to me how can water be trapped in a rock for billions of years?
Holy crap Bronko look at your previous troll comments and you will see.
Bronko, are you an Aspie? Or just an ass pie? You're wasting everyone's time with your whining.
What whining? Are you so dumb that you can't understand what I am saying?
It's like arguing with a box of rocks that can kind of type
If you can't tell me WHAT IS WRONG WITH WHAT I AM SAYING and still say I am wrong, you must have an IQ of 50. Every reasonable person would counter reasoning with reasoning. Not you dumb a ss.
What was that, cork soaker? Do you need your aspie meds?
Hey Bronko, you are uninformed but you are writing as if you know what you're talking about. However, your comments clearly demonstrate your ignorance. I won't address the mater of age in this comment. I focus on the water issue here.
In most cases the 'water' occurs as hydroxyl ions (i.e. OH-) that are structurally bound in the crystalline lattices of the minerals that compose the rock. That is, the 'water' is bonded to silicon, oxygen, magnesium and iron ions in the minerals. In other cases actual water is actually trapped as small droplets of water–these are called fluid inclusions. In either case the the 'water' can be retained essentially for eternity. The minerals are not easily decomposed to release the water and fluid inclusions are may not be completely decrepitated during natural high P-T events. The scientists are able to release the water by heating the minerals in the meteorite until they melt, thereby completely releasing any water or hydroxyl contained structurally or as fluid inclusions. Go read it for yourself!
Bronko, I forgot to mention that we know that the meteorites are from Mars because they have oxygen isotopic compositions that are identical to those measured in the Martian atmosphere by the Viking mission. The Martian meteorite oxygen isotopic compositions are distinct from other sources. Simple.
And there is no way that those oxygen isotopic compositions could also exist on earth? How do you know?
There is no way this is true.....this was never mentioned by my home school bible class.............I better call Mitt Romney on this one maybe he can use his Mormon Magical Underwear to help grant us the wisdom...............I hear this is what the repub house does when they are going to pass a bill.............
Mitt is too busy looking in his binders full of women trying to recruit more sisterwives for his new Warren Jeffs memorial Commune for cultists. Idk if Mitts Magical underwear can help but since Mitt is an expert in outer space because of his god living on Planet KOLOB or how he travels there using his cult Underwear we may have a shot. The hard part is trying to find Mitt,I bet he is somewhere trying to pass his infinite wisdom to the repub congress and possible convert them to his Cult Mormon Magical Underwear religion......
Seriously, guys? You couldn't leave politics out of this one?
If only we had God in our classrooms, none of this misinformation would be spread around...
Reblogged this on DJHMcDonald.
Here is a smile for your troubles.
🙂
Someone should really invent something so you can punch people in the face through the internet. Most of the idiots arguing with each other in here wouldn't say what they just typed.
I wish I can punch you
You guys are a bunch of trolls
Einstein? What are you trying to sound like? The smartest man in the world? Only I AM THE SMARTEST MAN IN THE WORLD
I bet most of you Americans only have a high school education. Before this article makes your head explode, why don't you people go back to school?
Oh no you didn't! Burn!
But seriously, Jean – what's your damage?
Jean thinks she can actually tell where someone is from on this blog. Sweetie, go make sammiches.
That's going to be hard..but transmitting smell is probably easier..so I could fart at anybody I don't like..
This is all BS. According to my pastor, Earth is only like 10,000 years old max, Mars couldn't be THAT much older than our planet...
Troll
Let me explain something about minerals and water. If the composition of the mineral was solid, no compressed granuals, and the molecular structure of the rock was smaller then water molecules, then water WOULD be trapped inside the meteroite as long as there was no inclusions in the rock surface that resulted in the water escaping.
If the molecular structure of the meteor was larger in size then water, water would escape.
This is why hydrogen, the smallest of the molecules of the atomic periodic table, cannot be contained in a rocket for very long. Its molecule is the smallest of all molecules and will escape though the gasket that is designed to contain it. How long it takes to escape, is a mater of time.
Thank you:)
Looks like most people here are allergic to reason. They are so keen on finding people on other planets that they are willing to throw out common sense. The irony is that they call those who think clearly trolls.
Let me explain something about morons...
Granuals? "Smaller then?" Meteroite? "No inclusions in?" A mater of time?
OMFG! PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS MERCIFUL LET THE NEXT METEOR GET ME!
2 funny..... had to read it twice......wow-just wow
I for one, find this article very interesting. This just keeps making the theory about water on other planets even more truthful and the possibility of life out there.
There's no life, only its physical components. We are alone.
Wrong
If you admit that the basic building blocks of life are common in the universe, then its a near certainty that life would exist somewhere else in the universe. It may be unlikely to be both close enough and advanced enough that any form of contact would be possible. However, anything that has been demonstrated to be possible in a given part of the universe, is a near certainty to reoccur elsewhere
now why dont you just all stop fighting and trolling to try to sound smart,shut up, and open a freaking bible, or if you already read the bible read a science book come on be open to other peoples ideas.
go ahead, try to reply to that.
Stop trolling for trollers, troll.
A troll, trolling trollers?? IT'S LIKE DIVIDING BY ZERO
You win... best comment on this thread! Had to laugh at that one! Well done!
It's funny that in this day and age of science, there are still people who think the world is 4000 years old. And why do they think that? Because a book written by schizophrenics tells them so.
the world is flat!!!
"The Book" is a SECOND-HAND account of the 'divine revelations' schizophrenics heard in their heads more than two thousand years ago. If every 'believer' would face the fact that anyone trying to pull off such a fraudulent stunt today would be arrested, we wouldn't have 'biblical values' deciding foreign policy (like invading Iraq for no justifiable reason,,, unless you are a fundamentalist who thought it was somehow tied in with biblical prophecy and somehow had something to do with 'ungodly un-christian' evil-doers and the endtimes...
And that piece of something, has been on earth for 2+ billion years, but that water could NOT have gotten into it here. No, it came WITH the water. You have seen it while time travelling.
C'mon, pay back your education fees. Not everybody is stupid enough to believe this crap.
They stated the rock was 2.1 billion years old. They never stated that the rock was 2.1 billion years old on Earth.
I can't tell if you are being serious or not. I think you are trolling. But just to be safe, the water found in these rocks was bound at a molecular level to the terrestial elements that formed this meteorite over several million, if not billion, years. 3 posts in a row is too much. You are a terrible troll
I am not a troll. How do you know the same material can't exist on earth and mars at the same time? Tell me smart alec.
Bronko it was already a rock when it landed on Earth. Do a little experiment. Go outside, pick a rock up, and pour water on it. Does the water seep through it? No it doesn't. So it is quite obvious that there was water already in the rock when it crashed on Earth if they saw water vapor come of the rock they just cracked.
God are you serious? Water does not sip through a rock? You are kidding.
Go ahead and test it out Bronko. Get a rock and see if it seeps through.
Because, Bronko, different ratios of isotopes exist in different parts of our solar system. This gives the water/carbon/iron on earth a different signature than that found elsewhere. That is also how we know the moon is mainly made up of materiel from earth. So rocks/water from mars is going to have a unique ratio of isotopes and can be easily identified.
God, there are ALWAYS microscopic holes on every material.
Well done Bronko. You are a lot smarter then you look. To bad that is the only thing you know.
No kiddin' God:) And if you cut a piece of grass, it is FULL of tiny holes/tubes through which water seeps through, enough to keep it alive. Go figure. Just in case you don't know what I am talking about: Such a TINY hole is enough to get water into ANYTHING.
Bronko you do realize I'm trollin you right? At least you aren't one of them nutters that whine and cry when they don't know anything.
Thanks for posting. I'm sure the many PhD-trained career geologists who study this issue never considered this and can't refute your point.
Is there any of them here? I would LOVE to hear their arguments.
I am absolute sure they are making this crap up to justify their salaries. Building a 27 km long tunnel for many BILLIONS to collide two tiny particles? While people are unemployed and hungry?
I would send them all to work in a coal mine.
Troooooooooll. Go do your homework, the big kids are talking.
Many billions compared to tens of billions in defense spending. NASA barely gets 2% of government funding compared to all other areas of spending. You people need to stop complaining. By the way, NASA is the one that has helped create jobs in this country for many years.
Those billions of dollars don't get burned in a fire. They are spent on materials and construction. They go to salaries and and services rendered. The money gets injected right back into the economy and employes hundreds of thousands of people from professors to the waste management crew.
OK, let's make a few more. So people 5000 years from now can assume they were burying places for our gods LOL
Well, perhaps those hungry, unemployed people should go out and look for work. There ARE jobs out there. They may not be the jobs people want, but they're there.
And NASA is WAY underfunded, in my honest opinion. We seriously need to stop funding BS, and start investing in science and technology again. We need to start making America #1 again. That's never going to happen if we pay people not to work.
Scientists like this are wasting our money. They should cut their budget. They are bored out of their mind and make up garbage and then they feed it to us.
You are joking right? I know you are just a troll. good one though
ALL THAT EVER LIVED ON EARTH WILL SOON HAVE THEIR EYES TO THE HEAVENS
Do a little History on this one.
ALL Should Look Up "2012 DA14".
This could take out one of more satellites and the junk and debris from the hit could end up taking out many more satellites very soon after that. All the satellite collision probability will go way up if even one is hit. The velocity that the parts would go to would make them missiles that would start targeting a chain reaction this would not be good.
Most all will be watching this one and pray it goes by us without a hit. Every Scientist alive will be watching this event. Many will be in Florida for a very special viewing of the once in a Lifetime Event. Professors, Scientist, World Leaders, Ham Radio Operators and Every Astronomer will have its eyes on This Event, along with almost every TV set on Earth.
"2012 DA14" goes by Earth twice a year and there is no way anyone for sure, can tell how close the second pass will be till it passes by the Moon and Earth and the GRAVITATIONAL FORCE effect that it will have on this Asteroid.
They may come close but this one is already coming very close to begin with. Too close this time or on its second or 3rd pass? Ad a Meteor Shower like the 13 and 14 of December of this year, it might go through or bump into one of them? Or all the other orbital debris like Spent Rocket Boosters left in space that can no longer be moved by a control center on Earth.
If a big enough one were to slam into the moon in the night sky you would think the sun was coming up early only it would be 5 to 7 times as bright. From The Sun's Rays Reflection on all the Debris Field.
2012 XM16, 2012 XM55, 2012 XP55, THERE ARE OVER 25 found just this year 2012 that are part of the Near Earth Object Program that will come close to Earth from now till 2012 DA14 comes.
You do not want to know how many are on the "PLANETARY DEFENSE" list.
The PLANETARY DEFENSE is not to protect Earth from men from Mars.
It is for all mankind with most all Nation in on it to stop if can most all collision with EARTH from a ASTEROID IMPACT. It is if you will a AVOIDANCE SHIELD. "N.E.O.S. Near Earth Object Shield".
If only one were to hit or IMPACT EARTH on land get ready for a winter you will never forget. The winter from 1883 -1884 KRAKATOA you will think was a little pebble, and now the stone comes.
A Shock Wave was felt in England from a Event about 7:15 to 7:20 A.M. Siberia time in the morning in June of the year 1908 high in the sky above the Forest in the remote wilderness of Tunguska Siberia heard an explosion that laid flat more than 800 square miles of the forest with all the trees pointing away from the center of the blast with most all the trees laying on their side. Some trees that were right below the blast were still there looking like telephone poles with no bark or branches left on them. This Asteroid did not even hit the Ground and this is known by most as the TUNGUSKA EVENT. For all that lived there it was WORMWOOD Rev 8:11 the wood became full of worms and the rivers water no longer sweet and undrinkable.
If a Meteor Shower is big enough you might think all the stars are falling from Heaven.
About one every 100 years makes it into the Earth’s Atmosphere big enough for all to take note. Some make it to the surface the signs are all over the Planet and moon from the ones that have.
Better to be safe then sorry.
GET READY
Read your Bible
While you still can,
and May our Lord GOD Bless all that do so.
John 14 : 6
Luke 13 : 27
Matthew 7 : 20 – 27
The Lord's Little Helper.
Paul Felix Schott.
P.S.
Help others in are Lord's name Jesus Christ help bring all to know him while you still can.
I hope something hits us hard, and soon, and knocks all you bible thumpers right off.
deities, demons, dragons, unicorns .... all pretend.
- evolution, pretend
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_DA14
Have you dug your hole in the ground and supplied it with jerky yet? Be sure to store some water!
What a bunch of self serving load of bull. People like this believe this way for one reason. Because in the event they are right they will be kings and go to heaven. I the event they are wrong they will never know. It is a personal protective device that shield this type of personality. Some fear what they do not understand. And some look for ways of understanding it. Don't let those who fear stand i the way of those seeking the real truth.
I foresaw AIDS VACCiNE technology in 34th century after new civil war in Europe or Poland went to war.
There's another philosopher's stone in dark planet is mostly magna crystal and other rare alien element. It's more like alien dinosaur waste.
N3446 planet have no life there. It will always be voynich manuscript to keep away from people!!
Ok L Ron Hubbard, Tom Cruise called and wants his E-Meter back.
They must be kidding. How on earth are they supposed to know where it came from 2 BILLION YEARS AGO? Who can take scientists like this seriously?
I'd rather believe in Santa Claus.
Well, you can look at a variety of different things. The composition of the molecules, half-lives of the presentable elements, and condition of the crystallines will give you an approximate date. Its from roughly 2.1 billion years ago, its a scientific guess based on how far our technology has come over the years. The universe is 14 billion light years wide, we can tell that by how long the light took to reach our planet. Are you saying thats a lie as well?
the OBSERVABLE universe is 14 billion lightyears wide. there may be much more light that just hasn't gotten here yet (and with the expansion of the uni, may never get here).
@Chris. Compared to the universe we are like little ants trying to find out how big is earth. Our guesses are approximately that accurate. Doesn't really matter if we say 1 billion light years or if we multiply it by 25. Nobody will know the difference.
How do they get away with publishing those completely unverifiable ages? Just silly numbers based on unproven assumtions. And they get away with it? Could the metorite come from a passing comet? Could a comet have a compound close to a Mars rock? With water vapor? This is all speculation yet they get away with stating as fact in a publication.
Comet can clean your kitchen, and a Kennedy can have a compound, but a comet can't have a compound.
It's like that friends and nose thing.
It only takes one drop of that water to transform you into a monster that begins gushing contaminated water and anyone who comes in contact with just one drop of it will turn into a monster that begins gushing contaminated water that turns anyone who comes in contact with just one drop into a monster that begins gushing contaminated water... Didn't anybody see Doctor Who The Waters of Mars??? An entire space station had to be blown up and the Doctor rescued three of its inhabitants in the Tardis only to have one commit suicide! Talk about ungrateful!
Would someone explain to me how, with any degree of certainty, it can be determined that a meteorite came from Mars as opposed to somewhere else in outer space?
Mass Spectrometry can compare the content of the meteorite to the content of Mars.
I believe that the roavers contain an FT-IR spectrophotometer. That instrumentation is much easier to put on the rover and is available here, all the scientists have to do is compare the spectra from the rover to the spectra obtained in the lab to determine similarity and get a good possible conformation of where the rock came from. Mass Spectrometers, even in space can be a bear to work with.
Yes, that bothered me as well. I did finally look it up. Mars is the best guess. But they may confirm that these rocks came from there with a higher degree of sureness in the future. But of course by then we may have manned missions to mars. They will never be 100 percent sure. (unless they can develop time travel and go watch mars spitting rocks into space).
Maybe you should research the science. I know it won't be easy like swallowing the words of a sermon, but, I bet you can do it. People who believe in invisible friends without batting an eye because some self-appointed religious tells them to do it shouldn't belittle true facts... I mean, the 'creator' had to be involved.
It's stamped "Made on Mars" on the bottom.
So let me get this straight, this thing came from mars 2.1 billion years ago, and it somehow found the right trajectory to collide with earth, then someone had to find it 2.1 billion years later, and omg there is water in the rock, yet there is over 75% of the earths mass that is water, and yet this water came from mars?
OMG people will believe everything
i'm pretty sure that NASA scientists are exponentially smarter than you. please stop pretending like you know anything about this topic
Wow. Stay in school. Scientists compare samples from other metorites from mars. We have this space program thing called NASA. We have a really good understanding of the surface composition of Mars. Its different than the surface of the Earth. There are vastly different amounts of various elements present in both samples.
The fact that you are skeptical that meteorites from space impact earth tells me that you have an extremely minimal amount of education. 1000s of meteorites slam into earth's atmosphere every year, from all over the universe. Most are destroyed by our atmosphere, which is why we are still here. Im sure at least 1 space rock hit earth as i was typing this. Do some research. stay in school. drugs are bad.
II may have missed it, but where did it say that the meteorite had been on Earth the whole time? You know most meteorites wiz around in space for who knows how long before they actually collide with another object in space? Regardless of their age these meteorites could have been here for millions of years or two days. It's almost as though some of you are intentionally ignorant.
I wish NASA and the government would stop "Protecting" us and go ahead and tell us that they have found signs of life on Mars!
That's what the Curiosity rover is there for. Or at least to determine if conditions suitable for life as we know it existed on Mars at one time.
Of course there is life on Mars. Just ask Detective Sam Tyler!
Lies! We all know the earth is only 50,000 years old.
What?? 6000.
I added in some time for the dinosaurs.
Oh yeah, that's right...I forgot we don't know how long a god-day is.
Don't you have some "legitimate rape victims" to, ummm, 'comfort' in private... or "welfare queens" to persecute? By the way, WE know who you REALLY are... Mr. HuckaBEELZEBUB...
Mike... even though I am just ten, you made me feel very special by inviting me to sit on your lap.
Woman, why you up in my grill...don't you have sandwiches to make?
So let's recap for all the "Bill Nye" worshipers out there:
Hydrogen+Oxygen elements in a rock released through intense heat as water vapor = flowing rivers on Mars – right?
How can you morons believe that because a rock contains hydrogen and oxygen elements that it means liquid water was on Mars?
Oh, maybe because the guy that wrote the article painted that picture for you, so that you immediately embraced the idea.
Right?
Now he's talking to himself...even better!
Another scientifically illiterate douche-troll. Congrats!
Do let us know when you believe you have evidence that contradicts the expert's point of view.
Youre a mor.on. Mass spectrometry can tell the difference between individual hydrogen and oxygen atoms and fully formed water molecules
The amount of water present and the type of mineral present is a good indicator of how these rocks were formed. This particular meteorite suggests that 2.1 billion years ago, the conditions on Mars would have been compatible with a significant amount of water.
As to flowing rivers, the evidence for that comes from the geological features revealed by high resolution mapping and some nifty on the ground work by NASA's Mars rovers that are looking to confirm how, when the rocks were deposited. Ground penetrating radar suggests there are significant deposits of water combined with frozen CO2 starting about 1 meter below ground at the Martian poles.
Umm... because an atom of water is made up of two hydrogen particles and one oxygen particle. The mass spectrometer tells us these molecules are present and how they interact with each other. The gas they extracted from the meteorites contain extremely high levels of hydrogen and oxygen, these molecules in a gas state is whats referred to as "water vapor" (water in gas form). The only explanation for their presence, is that water was present on mars. The fact that this particular meteorite contains higher concentrations then all other meteorites found thus far, indicates that there were varied levels and concentrations of water present on the surface of mars, in some form. And that said water was present long enough to bind with the terrestrial material that formed the rock to begin with. Which means that there was very likely flowing rivers, or lakes, or oceans, or all of the above, present on Mars, for several million, if not billion, years.
Anything else I can help you with?
Religion is what shysters make up when people don't understand something. They make up some shizzle to explain it to innocent, simple people... because it's easy money for people who can't make a decent honest living. Worshipping is the act of surrendering your common sense to these self-appointed 'religious authorities'. Science has nothing to do with fairytales until fairytale believers realize that science disproves some of their beliefs. Science can NEVER prove a god does not exist, but it often disproves false dogma. So, you must believe false dogma if you are anti-science. Congratulations... you are a tool who is making some shyster rich.
All I know is that a 2000-year-old dead guy loves me.
Those satan rocks are temptation. The dark overlord is tricking you. The earth is really flat. . . .arrgh! We're all sinning for even reading this godless liberal propaganda.
Anyone that posted about Jesus on here has a tiny pea brain. This is science. Jesus is a myth like all other religious figures.
There is no need to call names or be rude, Leucadia. If you don't believe in Jesus, you only need to say that.
There actually is a need, because it was written that he would scoff, if he didn't, the Truth of the Word would not be fullfilled. But I agree with you none-the-less. it always gets worse before it gets better.
Gonna get a lot worse if the religious weirdos keep dumbing down the country.
Good thing I'm from a different country. one doing much much better.
And exactly how are religious people dumbing down the country, Hike? Sources, please. Oh, and "sources" from anti-religious hate pages don't count.
Watch the news, read comments on articles like this...easy to see. Crazies. Luckily it dies out a little more each generation.
So you are saying that the news, or comments on these blogs, are reducing the average IQ of America, Hike? O..... K.....
No, the proof is there anytime some religious nutcake posts or yaps their mouths on tv. Easy to find.
Suck a duck, Petercha.
Remain calm bro, natural selection will weed these feeble-minded individuals from our species.
False. His name is Robert Griffin III and he's the starting QB for the Redskins. America's greatest and only real football team
hey you idiot Jesus is not a myth,you fool he is Gods son you freak!
People just read the published scientific paper that was released today.
Northwest Africa (NWA) 7034 is a porphyritic basaltic breccia that shares some geochemical characterstics with known martian meteorites (SNC), but also possesses some unique characteristics that would exclude it from the current SNC grouping. Instead, it has a major and minor element composition that is a remarkably good match with the geochemistry of the rocks and soil at Gusev Crater measured by the Spirit rover and the average martian crust composition from the Odyssey Orbiter gamma ray spectrometer. The mismatch of orbiter and rover data with SNC meteorites has been a perplexing enigma, however with the discovery of NWA 7034 we may now have found a “missing link”ù between martian meteorites and space craft data. A five-point isochon gives an Rb-Sr age for NWA 7034 of 2.089 ±0.081 Ga (2σ) (MSWD=6.6) and an initial 87Sr/86Sr ratio of 0.71359 ±54. The Sm-Nd data for the same samples show more scatter, with an isochron of 2.19 ±1.4 Ga (2σ). NWA 7034 is REE enriched crustal rock (La x58 CI) and strongly light REE over heavy REE enriched (La/Yb)N=2.3, with negative-Eu anomaly (Eu/Eu*=0.67). The whole rock has 143Nd/144Nd=0.511756 and 147Sm/144Nd=0.1664, giving a calculated initial (source value) 143Nd/144Nd=0.509467 (initial εNd=-9.1) which requires that it be derived from an enriched martian reservoir, with an inferred time-integrated 147Sm/144Nd=0.1689, assuming separation from a chondrite-like martian mantle 4.5 Ga. An age of ~2.1 Ga for NWA 7034 would make it the first meteorite sample from the early Amazonian or late Hesperian epoch in Mars geologic history. Oxygen isotope analyses of NWA 7034 were performed by laser fluorination at UNM on acid-washed bulk sample and at UCSD on vacuum pre-heated (1000 °C) bulk sample and give mean values Δ17O=0.57 ±0.05″° n=10 and Δ17O=0.50 ±0.03″° n=2, respectively. These interlab values are in good agreement, but are significantly higher than literature values for SNC meteorites (Δ17O range 0.15-0.45″°). There may be several possible explanations for the relatively high oxygen isotope values of NWA 7034. One possibility is that two or more distinct oxygen isotope reservoirs exist on Mars – for example a reservoir represented by the SNC meteorites and another martian reservoir with higher _18O, _17O, and Δ17O that we see in NWA 7034. The existence of multiple oxygen isotopic reservoirs within the silicate portion of Mars, as indicated by the new data from NWA 7034, is difficult to reconcile in the context of a global magma ocean and may indicate incomplete planetary differentiation on Mars. NWA 7034 has an order of magnitude more indigenous water than most SNC meteorites. Six whole-rock combustion measurements yielded a bulk water content for NWA 7034 of 6190 ±620 ppm with _D=+46.3 ±8.6. The maximum _D value in three separate stepwise heating experiments was +276, +327, and +319″° reached at 1050 °C, 1014 °C, and 804 °C respectively. The mean amount of water released at high temperature (>320 °C) is 3280 ±720 ppm. The comparatively high water content of NWA 7034 may be giving a glimpse of conditions in its source on Mars 2.1 billion years ago.
Sweet. Thanks for that.
That seemed to clear up the issue.
Maybe I should go back to school to understand what you are saying? Or call your bluff
People who do not know how to use paragraphs or refuse to format for easy readability cannot be trusted.
Not sure why you posted tose quotes... but here's some more;
Quran (2:191-193) – "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."
Quran (2:216) – "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Quran (3:56) – "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."
Quran (5:33) – "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"
Quran (8:12) – "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
Quran (9:5) – "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."
Quran (17:16) – "And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction."
Quran (25:52) – "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness..."
Quran (61:4) – "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way"
Quran 22:19-20 – "Garments of fire have been prepared for the unbelievers. Scalding water shall be poured upon their heads, melting their skins and that which is in their bellies. They shall be lashed with rods of iron.
Whenever, in their anguish, they try to escape from Hell, back they shall be dragged, and will be told: "Taste the torment of the Conflagration!"
Not sure why you felt the need to quote the Quaran. This is a story about a rock from another planet. There was no need to throw religion into the mix other than the fact that it kind of throws a hinge into the whole god created this place 6000 years ago....
Not all religions believe that, laurab68.
coo coo
For man to write words to encourage killing for the purpose of spreading rules from a specific culture is nothing new. Anybody can write poetry and say its from god or Allah. Saying that god wants you to kill people from another belief system of rules is nothing but the devils work.
"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful."
Qur’an 9:5
Encourages murder of non-muslims..... That is why Islam is a religion of hate and not Love. They try to convert people by force.
Ooops. You posted in the wrong forum.
I'm curious to know the actual water content. It's 10 fold that of other rocks discovered from Mars, but how does this compare to volcanic rocks formed on Earth (magma solidifying in the ocean for example)?
Good question, btechno.
I saw on the New York TImes' website that it's 6000 parts per million. Not very high.
I love this guy Realist. So crazy but he's making all of you guys mad. Can't we all just agree that RG3 is the return of the black jesus?
My friend, you have been BRAINWASHED. There is no such thing as "god"..."Allah"...whatever you call it...it is a human invention. None of that supernatural stuff actually exists. You need to wake up and face the truth, and learn to live without this fairy tale. .
"brainwashed"..... "fairy tale"..... Gimme a break, capnmike, there is no need to bash on religious people. You can simply say that you believe there is no god, without the bashing.
That is his religion, and he is frusterated that you wont conform! now. ...where have I heard that before...?
Not sure where you've heard that, Canada. I don't believe I've ever said that.
not you're beliefs. capnmikes. it's called Athiesm, and it's a relgion in its own.
Can't read a damn science article without this BS on it...gonna go over to the belief blog and see how the christies like it when we comment a bunch of science.
Hike, you can blame capnmike. He (or she) is the one that started this particular thread.
lol, you do, and It doesn't bug us at all... remember, the whole "Turn the other cheek, and bend like reeds thing?" us wackos think. nah nevermind. stay in the dark if you wish.
Canda, bro. Shut-up. For all north americans. You are pretty dumb. Atheism isn't a religion. Its the absence of belief in organized religion. Many athesits or agnostics are spiritual and religious in their own way. You don't have to believe in a mythical book that states there are dead floating people hovering above the clouds to be religious. Most religions were developed to go main-stream when humanity collectively believed that the world was flat, earth was the center of the universe, and that the continent of North America didn't exsist. These were extremely uneducated inviduals, concocting explanations of the world around them to make other ignorant people feel good about their terrible lives, and to make money. Religion is the biggest disease to ever impact man-kind, and its conversely also the leading cause of death of modern man since we started walking up-right. get over yourself, you know nothing.
you are the fool that is brainwashed into thinking that God is not real you idiot.
Thanks for staying on topic.
I find the article somewhat interesting but as someone who likes to think things out, it still annoys me as to how they can know for sure where that these rocks came from mars and not some other source. I suppose they are making a best guess.
I was curious about that as well.
They know where the rocks come from because we've been to Mars and have analyzed their characteristics.
What makes a lot of these "scientists" on this board mad is that they can't see that if a rock contains hydrogen, and oxygen, then it's possible to detect those elements in a rock such as a meteorite. BUT – that doesn't mean that because those two elements exist in the rock and can be released in a lab under intense heat, that they were in the form of liquid water on Mars at some point.
It's the intense desire to find life elsewhere that drives these Star Trek fans. They just can't admit that life sustaining water has not been found anywhere else other than earth.
Water (H2O) is one of the most common compounds present in space. You can easily detect it's chemical absorption spectral lines with modern telescopes and spectrographs. In fact water is already confirmed on the moon, Mars, Venus, Jupiter, Jupiter's moons etc. and every single comet that orbits the sun. You can even see it with the naked eye – comet tails are comprised of dust and water vapor.
There is nothing magical about water in the universe. The real question is how much, how long and is it still available in easily accessible sizeable amounts.
Meteorite and rocks from Mars do match. Therefore, the meteorite came from Mars.
Ok. The rocks match the rocks they are currently studying on mars. But they have been studying "mars rocks" years before we successfully landed probes on Mars. I could see that as a possible confirmation but that does not seem to be how they concluded they were from mars before. Anyway, these rocks are also similar in composition to rocks found on earth. Maybe they are from Venus or even Pluto. It really does not matter to me.
Ok. I looked it up. Mars is the best guess. Interesting.
Sigh. All, right, "realist"/troll, I will feed you. You no like big words, so I use little ones. Understand? Big rock hit Earth sky. As it falls it heats up. Water in the rock all go to steam, but steam no can leave big rock from middle. So it stays in middle of rock as steam. When pieces of big rock fall or melt while it falls, water at surface of rest of rock leave rock. When rock hit earth, it VERY hot, but if no way for steam to leave rock, it turn back to water when small rock cool. Then, people with ejucasun take rock they bought from people in desert, and heat rock so water inside turn to steam again. Wait long enough, or crack little rock a little, and steam come out of little rock.
If you no get this, I can say to you in baby talk. K?
Wrong moron. There's no way to tell if the hydrogen/oxygen elements in the rock existed as liquid water on Mars.
Lesson: Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the Universe – except for your ego. Oxygen also exists. Just because a rock contains those elements that are later released as water vapor doesn't mean water was present in liquid form on Mars.
Understand?
Didn't think so.
Realist – All i can do is laugh at you and your pathetic grasp of basic chemistry. Really woman, read some science books before you post on a science site
They wouldn't be water just the 2 elements. Its not like they'd be like "hey i'm bored, lets hook up and and become H2O". Simply putting 2 elements in the same container doesn't make a new compound/chemical.
Siggghhhh..... Why can't I enjoy a nice science article without someone getting bashed on for being religious, or conservative, or whatever? Let it go, people. If realist has objections to the article, leave him or her alone – no need to call names, stereotype, be rude, or whatever.
I have to agree with Realist at least in concept. DESTROY THAT WHICH YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND!!
Come a little closer Dr. Realist so I can crush you like a flabby grape.
Ah, much better. Carry on.
TM stands for "Total Moron" right?
I'm rubber. You're glue. Whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you.
Jesus was black.
Actually, Jesus was semitic. Or Israeli, if you prefer.
ah yes Black Jesus....... Upon his return he will come back as RG3 tearin up them cowboys last weekend. What What!!!!
Thank you for the information. I, for one, do believe in the God of Abraham (without specifying sect), but I do not limit His creation and power to just this tiny dust-speck of a planet in all of creation. I wonder which one of us believes in His infinite power and majesty more.
"I am the alpha and the Omega"
boring
TROLL ALERT – TROLL ALERT !! Realist = out of control troll. Do not feed it.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication/224830984_Water_in_Rocks_and_Minerals_-_Species_Distributions_and_Temperature_Dependences
Water is insidious! Promiscuous!! Down-right perfidious. Much like you knowledge Dr. Realist.
@realist: why did they do it in a vacuum chamber? Because pressure matters, and pressure is what keeps the water from leaving the rock as it falls through the atmosphere. Wikipedia -> phase diagram. Here is the one for water: http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/phase.html
What is space moron. Maybe a vacuum?
It's also very cold, friend. Again, check the phase diagram.
Realist is either trolling or needs to think logically for a second.
2 questions for you Realist...
How are volcanic rocks formed?
From where does water come?
The heat of friction with an atmosphere during reentry is nothing compared to the heat that locks water molecules into volcanic rock during it's formation.
I think they will find that most of the martian water was blasted into space by a collision and ended up here on earth. I think that would be interesting.
Ok – let's see if you self-described genius' understand this:
THERE IS NO WATER ON MARS OTHER THAN FROZEN WATER ICE. Because of this, it's not possible for that water to get into rocks. With me so far?
ANY SUGGESTION THAT THERE WAS ONCE FLOWING LIQUID WATER ON MARS IS CONJECTURE! Fueled by the intense desire for folks like you to meet a Klingon someday.
THERE IS NO REASON TO BELIEVE MARTIAN ROCKS CONTAIN WATER – OTHER THAN WISHFUL SCIENTISTS DREAMING IT TO BE SO.
Get it?
Good.
So, in your fairytale world, does melted frozen water turn into a liquid? I'd love to hear you explain sublimation without resorting to magical beings. Please... do share your 'cosmic wisdom' and enlighten us before the endtimes are upon us.
If you meant to post to me I do not recall referring to myself as "a genius" but whatever you want to call me. Water on Mars, no water on mars. Changes nothing in my belief system. I think whether there is or was liquid water on mars is open to atheist and Christian alike. My biggest problem is how they know the rocks are from mars. As far as meeting Klingons? No thank you. I'm looking for Vulcans.
well played willy pretty smart
Well said, Micheal.
Kewl, but I don't like reading phrases like "'being awakened' after many years" in connection with other worlds. XD
Realist, water is a major component of opals–there is a real risk of their drying out and cracking.
WE'RE TALKING A METEORITE MORONS. THERE IS NO TEST THAT WILL SHOW ANY REMAINING WATER VAPOR IN THE ROCK. GET IT? HOW STUPID DO YOU NEED TO BE.
It will take more than your high school science classes to understand I guess.
Realist: you need to get your facts right. I'm not going to flatter you with a personal response, but, rather copy and paste information from a simple Google Search. You might want to consider further education on the topic by conducting your own search. Following is from Google: "You can’t necessarily sip it with a straw, but water is a component of most rocks. Both at and below Earth’s surface, water in rocks drives geological processes. Within Earth, water plays a critical role in transforming and melting rocks. Where is the water in rocks? At shallow depths, much of the water is stored in tiny pores between mineral grains. Throughout the crust and mantle, water is held primarily as pairs of hydrogen and oxygen atoms (hydroxyl groups) in the atomic structures of minerals."
http://www.mnh.si.edu/earth/text/3_1_2_4.html
Remember: Even if what they say was true – that they could "heat" the rock in a vacuum to free water-vapor, any water that may have been in it would have evaporated as it entered the atmosphere. This is nothing but a joke – or really bad, bad science.
Oh really? LMAO, thanks Einstein.
No problem Cro-Magnon.
not only the water can stay within the structure the way Johnny 5 mentioned, but the other fact you're missing is that the rock that reaches Earth's soil is not that size and the part that lands on the ground actually never sees the temperatures you're talking about. .... meteorites enter Earth at large sizes and as they go through upper layers of atm. they burn and get smaller to the point that either they are consumed, or the parts that reach a cooler level of atm. and are small are the ones land ... and through out the burning process, the temperature gradient varies from extremely hot on the surface of the rock to mild or cold in the core .....
@Realist,
"...interacted with water to the extent that some water got incorporated into the structure of the minerals"
I think they are claiming the water was more tightly/closely bound to the meteorite than your average wet rock.
How stupid do you think we are? Water in a meteorite?
This is nothing more than another desperate attempt to justify funding. Don't fall for this folks. You all know what water is, right? There ain't no water in that rock. Seriously. These guys just want to desperately find water somewhere, anywhere but earth to make a case for visiting Mars, or the moon, or wherever. They think you're stupid enough to believe it.
Ah'll bet ya dun gradjeeyated frum Sarah Palin University now, didden ja.
Funny. You're a moron right? Water vapor doesn't exist in rocks numbskull. Even if it did, it would of all evaporated as it entered the atmosphere.
Idiot.
@realist. Sorry to burst your bubble, but many minerals are partially composed of water. For example, Gypsum is CaSo4 + 2H20 (the 2 H20 are two water molecules). At high temperatures the water can be liberated. Bear in mind that when the meteor fell to earth it's unlikely the interior temperature rose greatly. Sure, you're correct that surface water embedded in the composition was probably lost, but not those in the interior.
Wow, to hear a retard call everyone else stupid is quite interesting. Try opening a book other than the bible for a change you dim wit.
Playing the Bible card uh, "biscuit"?
Just another Atheist moron that believes anything that comes off of their Star Trek fantasy shelf. Bet you attend all of the Comic Con conventions you can, not don't ya?
Is there anything so called "scientists" might say that you'll actually disagree with?
Realist: you need to get your facts right. I'm not going to flatter you with a personal response, but, rather copy and paste information from a simple Google Search. You might want to consider further education on the topic by conducting your own search. Following is from Google: "You can’t necessarily sip it with a straw, but water is a component of most rocks. Both at and below Earth’s surface, water in rocks drives geological processes. Within Earth, water plays a critical role in transforming and melting rocks. Where is the water in rocks? At shallow depths, much of the water is stored in tiny pores between mineral grains. Throughout the crust and mantle, water is held primarily as pairs of hydrogen and oxygen atoms (hydroxyl groups) in the atomic structures of minerals."
http://www.mnh.si.edu/earth/text/3_1_2_4.html
Do you understand even a single iota of what science is? Put your tin hat back on and let the adults talk, run along now!
Yeah – science says you have no idea what you're talking about.
Any "water" in a meteorite was long ago evaporated through the intense heating process of re-entry.
Moron.
You freaking people believe anything you're told as long as the priest wears a white lab coat don't ya?
If you're gonna try to troll, at least do it elegantly.
Willful ignorance at its best! Please educate yourself, your foolishness is showing.
Really – then you tell me how any water would remain in a rock that was heated to temps much greater than anything they generated in the lab.
dweeb.
OK, it's really quite simple. A meteroite on reentry would heat up by friction with the atmosphere and reach temperatures that would causing melting (glassify) the surface. This heating usually caused disintegration of larger meterorites and smaller ones burn up in the atmosphere. Any meteroites large enough to reach the ground will have a glassy exterior shell but the internal crystalline structure will usually be unchanged.
When testing for water, you cut the rock to expose a fresh face, heat it and analyze the trace gases given off.
Does that answer your misgivings about the scientific process for looking for water in meteorites ?
Water containing dissolved neon, salts and other components get trapped in microscopic pockets of the meteorite. This chemical formula would be called SiO2*H2O or water molecules trapped in the structure of the rock.
Stony meteorites can and will still contain water and organic (carbon) molecules such as simple amino acids even with the extreme heat produced during re-entry.
P.S. that joke was lame.
That happens in Carbonaceous chondrites – NOT the type of meteorite these clowns say they discovered.
Um..Realist. Water can only evaporate if it has a means to escape to do so. If it is trapped within the rock it will heat up nicely but it will not simply disappear. Ever see steam collect on the lid to a pan? If it's trapped, it is not going anywhere...which is why you get burned if you aren't careful when your open the lid.
You need to quit being so disrespectful to scientists you don't even know. You have no basis for calling them liars...especially when your basic understanding of the universe is obviously pretty limited.
There's a difference between calling someone a liar, and a moron. If you don't know the difference, then you're most likely the latter.
I'll stop treating "scientists" with disrespect, as soon as they learn the same principle. Besides, there are no real scientists on this board anyway.
Mr. Realist,
Rocks are made of minerals in crystalline form. Many minerals are composed of water that is held tightly as part of the crystal lattice – it is called "water of crystallization" a term you will find if you open any high school chemistry textbook. Water can also exist in the intertices between grains. Neither of these water sources evaporate out of the rock at any appreciable rate – so they can be quite stable over long geological times.
To release this water, you need to heat the rock sample to disrupt the crystal lattice. And the trace amounts of water can be detected by mass spectrometers. Depending on the isotope ratios you can even tell if water came from recent surface contamination (Earth water is contaminated with tritium (3H) from the 1950s nuclear bomb blasts; half-life 11 years). Old water sources are essentially all regular hydrogen. The isotope ratios of various mineral elements also can date the age of the meterorite samples and the rare types of minerals identify them as extraterrestrial – in this case of Martian origin.
To release the
I bet you voted for Palin. Only Palin and her followers would saying something this dumb.
Realist, you're either a troll or somebody who doesn't understand hydrated minerals. The water's in the crystal structure, just as 4sanity said. There ARE scientists on this board, you're just not one of them, so don't pretend to be.